Do 1st Gen's suffer from KDP?

[Gymbo]

Forgive me if this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I am currently looking at a '93 1st gen instead of the 98 2nd Gen engine I WAS looking at for a Cummins conversion... and I am just wondering if the 89-93's have KDP problems? Thanks.



Jimbo

Roseburg, OR

 

[CDegner]

absolutely!



Carl

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Yes, and perhaps even more common is bolts loosening and falling out behind the cam gear, getting caught in the teeth. Be sure to fix both. You can r&r four of the 5 bolts and loctite them. If you put a bend in a 10 mm open end wrench, you can reach through a window in the cam gear to get the 5th bolt, the lowest one of the group of 4 trailing downward from the dowel pin area. Also, the dowel pin hole in the case is deep, like the updated second gen case with the restriction. However, the first gen does not have a restriction. A tab would have to have a step in it, or you can use the setscrew or bolt routine from outside the case.

 

[Gymbo]

Thank you for the quick replies!!



CDegner, I see you are in Longview... I am passing thru tomorrow on my way to Aberdeen, I'll be sure to wave!



Thanks guys.



Jimbo

 

[sparks57]

I hope you guys in Oregon and Washington are also members of the Northwest Bombers!

 

[Gymbo]

Originally posted by CB_Parker

I hope you guys in Oregon and Washington are also members of the Northwest Bombers!

Yes, I am Gymbo on there also.



Jimbo

 

[tugboatphil]

I hope you guys in Oregon and Washington are also members of the Northwest Bombers!

Just curious. Since the attack of 9/11/01, did your group receive any interest from the FBI? I know they have computer programs that scan webpages and such for keywords.

 

[CDegner]

I think I remember the webmaster (Rob) posting a while back that he see's hits occasionally that make him suspect it is being checked out. CB, do you remember that?



Some of the members have the NWBOMBER. COM logo plastered in 6" letters across the back of their canopies. I'm sure that raises some eyebrows!



Carl

 

[Greenleaf]

Ya know, I have often wondered about that... ...



I don't go around tell'n people that I have BOMBED my truck... ... basically 'cause nobody would have any idea what the he!! I'm talk'n about.



I just give em a shot of soot and a good look at my tail gate



-S

 

[CGauthier]

What tha heck is KDP????

 

[CDegner]

Originally posted by CGauthier

What tha heck is KDP????

Killer Dowel Pin. It is actually a pin that is used for alignment purposed between the block and timing cover. Problem is, Cummins forgot to design any means of retaining the pin in the cover. The pin can & has for some unfortunate people, come out. It is a steel pin and there is no wehre for it to go What normally happens is if falls out and gets beat between the gears and the case. The case, being aluminum, cracks ... if you are lucky. A few have been not so lucky and ended up with MAJOR damage.



Do a search on here and you will find more info than you can shake a stick at. If you are lucky, there is someone in your area that has a jig and can pin it in place for you. (a search will yield details on that too).



Carl

 

[CGauthier]

:--)

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Jimbo



Next time you come through Portland and have a couple of hours we can try and get together and do the set screw method of putting that KDP out of your misery. I have everything I need to do the deed at my house. If we do it elsewhere I will need a source of compressed air. I have done or supervised about 20 1st Gen. KDP's. It is also possible to do it at a BOMB party. Just let me know. BTW the only cost to you is your time.



Bob

 

[CGauthier]

This KDP thing is scaring the heck outta me... . if i brought it to Cummins would they do it? If so is it a big job(would it be expensive)??

 

[paccool]

Well, I decided to do the pin fix the old fashion way and fix everything once and for all. I ordered a new cover gasket, new front seal, and a new oil filler seal and when the truck comes back from the transmission shop getting the flex plate thing fixed I will pull it apart and fix the pin as well as the bolts. Been putting this off, figure I better get it taken care of before it bites me in the a**. I looked in the manual, doesn't look too bad to pull the crank pully and cover off but I'm sure there is something that will test my patience!



It will be a week or two before I get back from my next business trip so will do it then.

 

[CDegner]

Originally posted by CGauthier

This KDP thing is scaring the heck outta me... . if i brought it to Cummins would they do it? If so is it a big job(would it be expensive)??

They built it that way! In answer to your question, I think you could get them to tab it. I'd hate to see what the tab (sorry about the bad pun) would be for that one. If you have the time and tools, tabbing it yourself is not that bad (from what I have heard). The tab sold has to be bent to accomodate a slight difference in the case of our older (and better) trucks.



Carl

 

[Mel Fuelling]

I had never been inside a 5. 9 CTD before. I fixed my dowel pin at 197k. Took me 4 1/2 hours. Next one maybe 2 1/2 hours? I tapped the pin back in 7mm, used a gouge punch to upset 3 burrs behind the pin in the bore of the timing gear housing @ 120 degree intervals, cleaned the bore with brakekleen, blew it out with air, and applied blue loctite to the bore and back of the pin. Probably 1/2 hour to fix the pin to my satisfaction.



Tightened all accessable bolt heads with torque wrench to 18 ft/lbs. Rolled the crank over several times to get at bolts hiding behind cam gear spokes and tightened them by guess. The loosest of my half dozen bolts tightened took slightly more than 1/8th of a turn. I didn't remove, clean and loctite any, just checked torque and tightened 6 loose ones. Probably 1 1/2 hr.



Wrestled with Cummins front seal in front cover, wondering if the plastic seal protecting sleeve could possibly work (it does), learning that the crank seal area of the front cover must be directly supported by a piece of pipe or large socket slightly larger than seal diameter to seat new seal without profanity. Probably

2 hours.



Removing fan, belt, idler base, oil spout, crank pulley, and front cover and reinstalling, probably 1/2 hour +?



I wanted to open the cover up and am glad I did. My kdp repair method is not a tdr recommended method. Upsetting a burr to retain a floating pin has worked well for me for 30+ years, it seemed an excellent solution to me in this situation and I will probably recommend my solution or the tab method to any other CTD owners that ask. Not being an experienced 5. 9 CTD technician, I wouldn't feel comfortable using or recommending the kdp jig to others.



Either doing the kdp repair yourself or hiring someone to do it is

the most productive preventive mechanical repair that I've encountered in years.



Mel

 

[LV-CTD]

Originally posted by paccool

Well, I decided to do the pin fix the old fashion way and fix everything once and for all. I ordered a new cover gasket, new front seal, and a new oil filler seal and when the truck comes back from the transmission shop getting the flex plate thing fixed I will pull it apart and fix the pin as well as the bolts. Been putting this off, figure I better get it taken care of before it bites me in the a**. I looked in the manual, doesn't look too bad to pull the crank pully and cover off but I'm sure there is something that will test my patience!



It will be a week or two before I get back from my next business trip so will do it then.

I wouldn't be paranoid about driving it for a little while but wouldn't recomend waiting for very long before fixing it either. There are stories of the pin falling out as the owner was driving to a place to have it fixed. I had Joe D who posted earlier in the thread fix mine with the jig fix two weeks ago. I've only got 48k miles on mine and it was already half way out! He said that his fell out at just 40K on his '97. As has been said before in other threads, some may come out within 40k, some may come out before 100k and some may not come out at all. But, you won't know untill it's TOO late if you just wait and see! I didn't want to wait and now I'm glad I didn't.



Tom

 

[Gymbo]

Originally posted by Bob Beauchaine

Jimbo



Next time you come through Portland and have a couple of hours we can try and get together and do the set screw method of putting that KDP out of your misery. I have everything I need to do the deed at my house. If we do it elsewhere I will need a source of compressed air. I have done or supervised about 20 1st Gen. KDP's. It is also possible to do it at a BOMB party. Just let me know. BTW the only cost to you is your time.

Thanks Bob. I am Portland fairly frequently. My in-laws live behind the Charbonneau development just south of Wilsonville. I will keep that in mind and will take you up on that if/when I get a 1st gen. Again, thanks.



Jim

 

[enes]

How can you check if you have KDP issues? I know i have oil spraying on my fan shroud it started about few months ago a little, not enough to drop anywhere on the ground tho.



-E