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Do you think the Cummins could handle this?

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Turbo over powered?

Leewhiskey

TDR MEMBER
Firing up cold and within seconds running at over 3000rpm with no load? Having drivers start them cold and head off down the street with the pedal to the floor? Idling for several hours on end? Being started and shut off very numerous times each day, sometimes with very short interval between starting and shutdown?

I love my Cummins just as much as the rest of you, and the only thing above I think it wouldn't like that much is running 3000 rpm seconds after being started cold. Maybe it would be fine through all of that. However, my point is I see the done to 70 or so engines each day. Not all engines "expirience" everything listed everyday, but it happens to all of them regularly. There are a few of them with over 250000, 90% of the rest is somewhere around 220000, and the remaining 10% is scattered around the 200000 mark. We have only have two engines have major trouble. One had an injector go bad, and the other lost a turbo. Water pumps are replaced fairly often, and we go through trannys like madmen, but the power stroke diesels in these buses are still going strong. All have good power, and use very little oil. Starting is terrible in the winter, but I'm more trusting of my 6. 9L navistar in my 84 ford to start in really cold weather than I am of my cummins. My Cummins does not start well in cold weather.

My basic point is the PSD is better than most of you appear to think it is. I cannot think of many applications that could be harder on an engine than where I work.

FYI- I work as a mechanic for Laidlaw transit services in Roseville MN. We run E-350 buses which weigh almost 11000lbs.

Sorry for the long post, but I don't like seeing the PSD being bashed as much as it is. It is a good engine to. The cummins is a better engine IMO, for many reasons. But the PSD is not that far down the hill the cummins is on top of.

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2001 Dodge Quad cab 4x4. HO Cummins 6spd. Patriot blue. Everything except leather. Muffler fell out, Luverne nerf's, stainless rocker panels, PowerEdge EZ
 
All of the manufacturers out there have their own strong and weak points. It's all in the engineering and design areas that need improvement, like cummins motors are strong as nails but the weak points are the "other" vitals that keep 'em "running" I. E Fuel delivery systems ..... Poor desighn and noone at D/C bothered to make any effort to correct that (Pumps Push Not Pull) Ford and navistar ..... A few more desighn flaws EEC IV electric engine control management... . I worked for ford for several years and For the dIESEL ONLY WE HAD BEEN SHIPPED TO yONKERS n. y TO LEARN THE sPEGHETTI MESS Systems under the hood that all of which had basicly poor connection design flaws that would render an owner helpless in most situations. Now we have chevrolet ditching Detroit Diesel and finding a new Venue..... Isuzu... . Alison..... To Be Continued #ad

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Hey Leewhiskey

Good to see another TDR guy who's in school transportation. I wrench for a small district with 32 buses. I watch my buses going though the same kind of punishment daily and marvel at how tough diesels can be.

Doc




[This message has been edited by Doc Tinker (edited 04-08-2001). ]
 
A very good buddy is head mechcanic for a large So. California transit company. Swears by the Detroit Diesel & Cat, doesn't like the Nav and has yet to form an opinion on Cummins. He told me that Cummins engines just started appearing in their buses about 6 months ago, so far so good.
 
If you think so.

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1999 2500 4x4, auto, 3. 54 LSD, HD241, Quad cab SLT, Blk Sport Pkg, 16x8 Eagles, 285 Bridgestone AT, Bilsteins, 100% Amsoil, 80/100w lights, Valentine One, DTT TC/vb, Mag-Hytek trans pan, DD2's, DD TTPM, Isspro gauges.
1992 SC400
1978 Mooney 201 IFR
 
Doc,
Its not a school contract, rather a contract for an orginization called Metro Mobility. We provide rides for handicapped people.

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2001 Dodge Quad cab 4x4. HO Cummins 6spd. Patriot blue. Everything except leather. Muffler fell out, Luverne nerf's, stainless rocker panels, PowerEdge EZ
 
Don't work at a school district, but I do make sales calls to several. The Salt Lake City School District here has about 170 buses. 90% Cummins 5. 9 ISC's. The rest are PSD's like you have described. The guys there are nuts about the Cummins. Easy to work on, and simple. They have had no problems with the PSD but complain ( as others in this post ) about working on them.
Just my $0. 02.

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98 Properly Valved 4x4 SWB QC ISB A/T Metallic Red w/ tan cloth interior, DC nerf bars, DC two piece mud-flaps, 275 h. p. injectors, Monroe Gas Magnums, Armor Tuff spray in bed liner, Goodyear Wrangler ATS 285/75r/16, BD Heavy Duty Valve body. Walker 21468 thru flow muffler,Cobra 29 NWST CB. American Racing Wheels. Power Edge EZ control module,Tuff Country 2" Leveling System, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver.
 
I used to drive a 97F450 PSD auto truck at work. It has an Aluminum sidebay mickey body on it with about 150 car and truck batteries on it. Wieghed in at 14K average. With a full load of cores I had gotten it to 17K before. Truck help up great for 130K till we sold it. The PSD came from the factory with a dead injector. had a transmission at 46K. To many cam sensors to think of. Two sets of exhaust manifold gaskets. The check engine light came on anytime you went over 2500 on an oil change also. The power was there it ran pretty good for an overloaded truck but was an expense!! My . 02
Clark
 
My uncle works at the county garage and says completely the opposite.

He said that the county had so much trouble with the International powered buses and ambulances that 2 years ago they had to contract out to get repairs done on the county's Ambulances because they were backed up with repairs on these so called wonderful engines. Everything from water pumps to bent push rods to the dreaded spider cracks in the cylinder walls. (Sound familiar?) He said "You name it, We've replaced it. "

He said the county has recovered nicely since replacing 75% of the buses with ones that have Cummins engines in them and that 90% of them come in the shop for repairs other than engine trouble,but they now have to work on those Navistar Ambulances and the rest of the buses on a regular basis.

I asked him if he gets worried about job security. He said, "Nope, not as long as the county has some Internationals running around"

I did ask him if he'd found any Internationals with Cavitation problems. He said, "No but I have seen a couple with cracks in the cylinder walls and anti-freeze in the oil pan". I said "Duhh!, that's the same thing!" He apparantly didn't know what "cackle" meant either until I explained it to him. He said that he hasn't paid much attention to that one.

I have heard the same type of stories from a friend of mine who works on the UPS fleet and he drives a 91 F-250 w/6. 9. He says they have alot more trouble out of the Navistar trucks than they do their Cummins trucks.
 
Metro mobility aren't those pretty much a one ton truck.
I know of a town just north of hear that has about 6 busses with the 5. 9 cummins in them. These are the 60 plus passenger busses too.
 
Hey, Lee... i'd like to point out that the computer controls on that PSD prevent full power until it's warm, and that the bus engine doesn't grunt as hard as the pickup engine, as far as I know.

The UPS fleet around my neck of the woods uses the PS engine in them, but it doesn't sound like, run like, or behave like the engine in the Fords. The drivers say it's gutless and has been relatively troublesome (mostly electronics), with the worst part being that it's difficult to track down and actually fix recurring failures.

Apparently, UPS deemed getting a highly detuned engine in thier best interest... but these trucks have difficulty maintaining highway speed in a headwind, the drivers say.

What's interesting, is that the PSD engine cranks for a moment, then the computer gives it fuel. It starts with a lurch - lots of fuel. The UPS truck engines sound like they barely start. The computer starts it up slowly - not with a lurch. It actually sounds like it's just barely able to start on it's own.

As far as spooling up cold and running fast... the ability to do that isn't necessarily a virtue in my book.
 
Your description of abuse seems light compared to a cummins, 5. 9 powered, off road forklifts at construction sites. Multiple drivers, start up cold, full throttle to extend booms, lift 10,000 lbs of material at full throttle, then shut down immediatley. And since they are rentals, they only get serviced at turn in(3-6 months).
 
The UPS trucks around here have the Cummins in them,acording to the drivers,they love em. They punish the hell out of them. Cold starts,shutting them down,then starting them with foot on the floor several hundred times a day. Got one with 325000 and no problems.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop. 72000 as of 3/1/01,not even broke in yet. Old Dodge 126000 miles and running better than new.
 
OTHER than simple poke-in-the-ribs fun, like in my sig, I don't really enjoy brand-bashing, and have done my part to discourage it on several boards and occasions. I have in the past been a Ford, then GM fan - disliked CC stuff, but love *both* the Dodge and Cummins portions of my current '91. I currently own the Dodge, a '98 Camaro SS, a restored '70 Caddy convertible, and a Mazda 323 (Ford subsidiary) - so all 3 brands are pretty well represented in my driveway! #ad


THAT said, *I* would have a hard time at this point in my life choosing between a Ford PS and a new Dodge/Cummins - I seriously doubt that there's much difference in potential problems between them, either will outlast ME, and off the dealer's lot, all things being equal, the Ford feels stronger in around-town driving - and seems to provide a slight edge in pulling power. There are also down-sides to the Ford, harder to work on, more complex design - plus a few others, and I'm sure the PS fans can point to issues THEY dislike on the Dodge - but for the most part, it comes down to personal preference and expectations - as well as specific design issues that better fit one buyer than another.

Personally, I think they are BOTH great - and the new GM may well prove out as well - so it's largely a matter of what YOU prefer, are willing to lay out the cash for, and comes closer to delivering what YOU need it to do for you!

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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... Tweaked pump, upgraded radiator... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

"Dura" WHAT? NOW I know where all those recycled beer cans go...

[This message has been edited by Gary - KJ6Q (edited 04-09-2001). ]
 
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here's one for ya. Friend of mine, electrical contractor, recently sold his 97 dodge 12v cummins in favor of a 2000 ford PS because of 4 full size doors. Both trucks were equiped with standard trannys, both duelly's. the new ford is 4x4 and six speed the dodge was 2x4 and 5 speed. this is what he does not like me to talk about. The ford is now averaging 12. 5 MPG. the dodge was averaging close to 19 MPG. The dodge had 120,000 on it, and the ford now has close to 50,000. My goodness he hates his fuel mileage!

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Daniel McKeehan
1999 2500 QC/Short Bed/4X4 5 speed. Camper Package and of course a Cummins.
 
My uncles-sisters-brothers-third cousin-on my dads side twice removed, said Cummins is a much better engine than the PSD.

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2001 3500 QC 24V SLT Larimie, leather, BD Plug in Power, 275 injectors, BD Torque Convertor ,Valve Body, Pressure Lock, Torque-loc, Gauges,Black w/ Ranchhand bumpers Brownes HD Headache rack and a black wetherguard coffin. pullee 34Ft. gooseneck and a 32ft x 6ft stock trailer.
2000 Durnago SLT 5. 9litre V8
 
Off the subject:

Hey Gary, That '70 Caddy has got one heck of a powerplant in it!! I've got an old Chiltons Engine Manual '65-'71 and it said that the '70 Caddy's 500cu. has got 400hp@ 4000rpm's and 550ft. lb. @ 2800rpm's!!
I bet it'll roast the tires for days!!

Then the numbers were cut severely in '71.

<font size=-2>

[This message has been edited by WOWZY (edited 04-09-2001). ]
 
YUP - for a while, some of the old "whales" - big-block sedans and wagons - were in some demand as smog legislation and weak truck engines made for poor RV towing. My Caddy has the 472 engine, 375 hp and 525 ft lbs torque not bad, even compared to the latest turbo diesels! Fuel mileage runs around 15 mpg - and they don't do bad pulling a load either - usually BETTER than the biggest truck gas motors - including the V10'S!

Mine's for sale - 7 grand - for those interested, check it out at the pointer below... #ad


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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... Tweaked pump, upgraded radiator... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

"Dura" WHAT? NOW I know where all those recycled beer cans go...
 
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Had a 70 Caddy. It was front wheel drive 500cu beast. I could run at 100+ all day long and still light up the front tires. Only problems were the rear auto air shocks and electricals. But it was a comfortable car.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop. 72000 as of 3/1/01,not even broke in yet. Old Dodge 126000 miles and running better than new.
 
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