Dodge/Ford/GMC?

[Sregorb]

OK, OK, First I want to say that I am NOT trying to start a big flame/ego war here. This is a serious question that we all have asked at some time.



A co-worker is in the market for a new truck. He absolutely loves my Dodge truck and is awed by the Cummins. His family on the other hand is die-hard Ford fans. New to the mix is the availability of the Duramax. (isn't competition great!) He asked the million dollar question (well, ok, maybe more like $40k) today and my answer was rather wimpy.

Q: Which is better and why? What data is there to back up the claims.

My A: Depends on what you want the truck to do and compare everything you can get ahold of. Engine specs, owner opinions, boards (like this), etc. and make the most informed decision you can.



I know there are as many opinions as people, but (here goes) what comparison data/items are there between the Dodge and others???

I remember some people talking about the 'light duty' vs 'heavy duty' stickers/plates on the engines. Where are those??? I didn't see them when I did a quick look in engine compartment.

Also, any data that I can give him will help in his research. (alum heads vs ?, reliabilty issues, outpulling, acceleration, NOISE, etc)



I know the Dodge was the right decision for me. How do I explain in whatever terms to another person on the 'outside' (doesn't own a truck-let alone a diesel).



Brian

 

[LSMITH]

Brian, I am probably going to get hammered for this but here goes.



As far as reliability of the engines goes-- the Cummins is the simplest design by quite a bit. Lots less parts and pieces and sensors too, even on a 24V. The PSD is a proven design, and has proven that with a good maintenance plan it will go 200K+ easily. The Dmax is a newer design, but initial reports from the guys hotshotting with them and using them hard are pretty good. They seem to have most of the bugs out of the Dmax. The medium duty-light duty arguement means nothing to me, it is just a chest pounding excercise IMO. Either it will last as long as you want or it will not. They will all go a lot longer than the average guy will have the truck.



The truck- The Dodge is quite comfortable and has the best interior of the three IMO. The steering is a weak excuse for a solidly designed and built system on the 4x4's. You can just about plan on a steering gear within 80K miles and often within 40K miles. Tie rod ends that are not greasable often do not make it 100K miles. Lots of guys are replacing ball joints inside of 80K miles too. The brakes are just as bad, brake pull is really common. The calipers hang up in one way or another and eat pads, along with a healthy brake pull. Dodge has ZERO interest in fixing it, they will just try to cover it up so you shut up. The trackbar is weak, plan on one getting replaced every 30K miles minimum, 15-18K miles in my case. The Ford truck is somewhat nice inside, fit and finish is good. The steering and brakes on the Ford are a ton better than the dodge. Ride and drive qualities are pretty good. I have not seen the chronic steering and brake problems with the Ford. The GM has the best ride and drive of the three by far. It is comfortable and very predictable, very car-like ride and drive. They will still hold a good load, so the homework on progressive springs was done well. I like the GM interior the least, it is just kind of blah to me. Little is known about the suspension and steering on the GM trucks, but it appears to be solidly designed. The new HD has not been out long enough to really tell 100% if they are going to have the chronic problems IMO.



Both the Ford and GM are a lot quieter than current Dodges. That is a good thing IMO. Both are also more powerful in stock form. The PSD will hit 325 RWHP just as easily and cheaply as the Cummins, but from there it gets pretty expensive really fast. The GM runs good just like it is, but for about $800 you can out pull one pretty bad with a Ford or a Dodge. The bombs for the GM are still pretty limited, give that some more time and it should even out some. The stock auto's in the Dodge and Ford are outright junk compared to the Allison in the GM, man that thing is SWEET!! It works like an auto should. You can make the Dodge and Ford auto work just as good for about $3000 though. I think in stock form the Dodge auto is marginally better than the Ford, and the Allison had some bugs early but they seem to be getting worked out. Manual trannies from all 3 seem to be pretty darn good.



The other major factor IMO is the availability of the crew cab in the GM and Ford. The Ford is HUGE inside, and the 03 Dodge will be about the same size as the GM. If your buddy has a couple of kids or plans on it the crew cab is almost necessary. I have gotten by with my quad cab, but it is a real pain sometimes.



If I were buying today knowing what I have learned over the last couple of years with my Dodge I would have a really hard time with this decision. I would be deciding between the Ford and Dodge though. The GM is far too expensive for what you get. The Cummins makes up for a lot of the deficiencies in the Dodge, and the Ford truck makes up for a lot of the PSD disadvantages when compared to the Cummins. If he needs a crew cab get the Ford, if he can use the regular or quad cab then the decision is tough.



This is all my honest opinions. I hope it helps.

 

[LarryB]

First off! What kind of a guy is he? Maybe he needs one of the other brands. Or maybe he is a Cummins guy. Don't try to sell him something he won't like.

 

[RamStud139419850]

I love my Ram, but.........

When I sell it, I'll be driving a crew cab Ford PSD. If I could put my Cummins in the Ford truck, I would be happy! I don't like the PSD, or all the sensors and crap hanging off of it, hell ,it looks like it belongs on a space station. Unfortunatley, I dislike my small quad cab and the new quad cab even less. I have a 5 and 9 year old that are growing every day, I just can't see squeezing them back there in a couple more years. I won't ride back there, it's just uncomfortable. I love my Ram, I'll probably cry when it goes. As for reliability, I've had all three brands and I like Ford and Dodge, not many problems with either, however, I will NEVER have another GM anything!

 

[Sregorb]

Wow, not really confidence building replies.....

In answer to the question, he's a reliability/longevity person. He couldn't care less about noise (loud 'n proud!) and is like me where I'll compromise niceties for solids or power. He really likes the solid, proven, simplistic Cummins but doesn't know about the rest of the 'packaging'. I know that several people told me (when I was looking and researching) that the dodge truck will fall apart around the engine in the far future. The engine is going to outlast the truck easily.

For me that's great! If someone has developed a widget that lasts forever but gets put in a package that only lasts 15-20 years then I say Kudo's to the widget maker! -AND- What can the package maker do to improve their product to match????

Anyway, he really loves the Ram but he'll be going against the grain in the family by getting one. I can understand him to! He foresee's situations where the "fam" gives him a ton of "I told you so's" and "Shoulda bought a _____" with every tiny little problem or adjustment he has whether it's a plastic clip or an figment of their inebriation. He just wants some solid footing to throw stuff back when that happens. Short of heading to the fields with a chained-up rearend for a pull off, what other pro's are there to owning a Ram?



Brian

 

[BV]

Which one

The light duty / heavy duty rating are for the motors and what application they will fit. I think you will find them on the Internation and Cummins sites.



Now for MHO - If you want to drag race (not loaded) then get a v8. If you want to pull a house on wheels than any get the i6.



Synder has a very good idea - Put the Cummins on the Ford frame with Dodge interior and leave Chevy/GMC out of it.

 

[BCFAST]

As far as decisions go, we are either buying the truck or the motor... . simple as that. Personally, I bought the motor and the truck came with it. In a nutshell: the brakes are lame. the automatic is horrid. the U. S. -built trucks are sub-par in fit and finish (IMO)... . and the whole thing is better overall than the Ford. My experience with GM products has created a total ban on them at my house. The allison trans isnt sliced bread; if it was the exact same unit used in big pusher M. H. s, then Id be a believer. It's NOT the same... it is a purpose-built light duty unit made only for the pickup. I like my Ram as a vehicle... it is roomy, comfy and decent riding. I LOVE the motor. I bought a manual gearbox truck.



Brian

 

[maint.man]

I really like my Cummins (I mean Dodge ) However , I used to be a die hard Chevy guy . I personally think that if your friend is goin' to spend 40K then he needs to find the one that he likes the best , either by looks or sound or comfort . In reality they all break down , they all go from point A to B , and their all overpriced.

Just my . 02

 

[Texas Diesel]

My brother owns three PSD's. Common problems: Really lousey Air Conditioning, Fords Replace-a-matic transmissions ( rebuilt twice in 150k, PLASTIC components in the auto locking hubs, EXPENSIVE engine repairs, i. e. $900 for a water pump because the front half of the motor has to be removed, 200 + peices in EACH injector, oil foaming causing loss of fuel injection, Best Feature: It's not a GM. He dumps them @ 150k because they are worn out.



GM Duramax (selfproclaimed): Pass, too new of a design and I hear lots of complaints even from people I meet at the fuel station. Lets see how they do when (if) they reach 500k miles, then brag OR admit that it can do as well as a CTD ( that has 40% fewer engine components ).



CTD: Outstanding, time proven engine. Strong gear box and drive line, strong frame, best brakes in the class ( 2001. 5 + 4 wheel disk ) Excellent A/C, good ride, and a real workhorse. All things considered the CTD is the best available and easiest to modify if you want to. Common problems, trac bar, steering box, sealed for life tie rod ends ( same with ANY other sealed units ), lift pumps ( mine is still 15 idle / 11 WOT @ 36k )

 

[schu777]

Originally posted by Sregorb



His family on the other hand is die-hard Ford fans.

Brian [/B]

My family is also fans (not super fans, but fans) of Ford too. I didn't want to listen the "Why buy a diesel?", "Dodge? Why?", "That dodge won't last" and such, so I kept (for almost 2 years) a secret of the vehicle I was going to buy. No one in my family knew what I was getting til I sent pictures of it out. When I took it home, basically it was "You deserve to get a new vehicle, so long as your happy" type of comment. Now my brother-in-law is a very big guy and so are his sons. No way would he be comfortable in a Dodge, Ford Crew cab was the only way for him to go, plus he is a ford fan. I don't think I'll get any real bad bashing on the truck from my family, since I tell them I get 16mpg for city driving, they tend to quiet down a bit. Mom & Dad's expedition gets 14-15 and that was highway!



For your friend, it would be what best suits him. If he needs alot of room for big family, then perhaps a crew cab ford would be it... if it's just him... the Dodge with the cummins in it. I wouldn't trust getting a Duramax right now, too new and not proven. I would also avoid getting the 2003 Dodge cummins too, just that it's a change in design of the model and some changes in engine (I think?) Ford - well, I never considered them since I drove this Dodge and knew what I was getting!



Good luck in getting your fried to chose wisely... Remember the movie 'Raiders of the Lost Ark - The Last Cursade" - those guys didn't choose the right cup...

 

[Sregorb]

Hehe, I just talked to him today and it looks like his problem is solved. His parents visited and had a tale of woe about their prized Powerstoke--a blown headgasket.

Now he's free to get what he's comfortable in (Dodge) and at least start out with one "point" in his favor. Ought to make his dinner conversations and family gatherings fun at least... ...



Brian

ps. thanks for all the replies, they help! I think he was sold on the Cummins before any of this happened though