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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Does it automatically mean injuection pump time if...

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JayStraight

I've been getting the 'dead pedal' for the last 200 miles or so, I've got the dreaded 0216 code reoccuring (came back after being cleared). It's a 2002 Automatic with 76,000 on it. I've only had the truck for about 3 months and just recently changed the fuel filter with a fleetguard stratapore.



Can I do an AirDog and save the injection pump????
 
JayStraight said:
I've been getting the 'dead pedal' for the last 200 miles or so, I've got the dreaded 0216 code reoccuring (came back after being cleared). It's a 2002 Automatic with 76,000 on it. I've only had the truck for about 3 months and just recently changed the fuel filter with a fleetguard stratapore.



Can I do an AirDog and save the injection pump????
Click to expand...



Save?? 99% chance that you can't save it from an eventual failure... but, prolong is a possibility but you must be prepared for the end game that your pump will probably take a dirt nap at a completely inopportune time.



I installed a FASS(2004); checked codes after getting everything back together and I had an existing P0216... I had previously checked about 1 month prior with no codes. Anyhow... I knew that eventually my pump would die and it did... 13 months and 10's of thousands of miles later it decided not to start one Monday morning... they weren't necessarily trouble free miles... dead pedals, hard starts, troubles in stop and go traffic, etc... so it is possible to prolong life but your best bet is to nip it in the butt now.
 
Jay,

It is possible that your VP will last for a good while. Then again, it is possible it will die tomorrow, impossible to know.

Do you have a fuel psi gauge installed? If not it is the most essential gauge on the 24v. Put one on and tap into the inlet of the VP with a tapped banjo bolt from Geno's Garage. Then you will KNOW what your fuel psi is and also when the filter is getting clogged. It is of utmost importance to keep no less than 5 psi going to the VP at all times. The AirDog is a great investment when your lift pump dies. My AirDog has 300,000 miles on it with no issues. PM me for a dealer. Check with Scheid Diesel for a VP.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
I had dead pedal under load, and a code 0216. I changed the very dirty filter and installed a FASS pump. All ran well. I cleared the code and it has not come back... A 216 can be caused by a dirty filter or a restriction.

Now a word about that *^%$&&%% lift pump design. I ordered a gauge with the FASS. I put the gauge on first to see what it was running stock. With any pedal pressure the gauge went to vaccume. At idle it would briefly hit about 5 psi, but drop as soon as I touched the pedal. After the FASS the gauge runs at 16, drops to 11 or 12 at WOT. Wow. The VP does all the work with the stock lift pump. No wonder they pound dirt so soon. Way to go Chrysler... Nice way to treat people who spend north of 30 K on your products. :mad:
 
I disagree the lift pump is the weak link. The Fuel Injection pump would last as long as the truck if it got enough fuel to lubricate and cool it. The other piece of junk that Chysler put on the 2nd Generation trucks was the automatic transmission! The only real selling point is the engine. I knew that when I bought mine 10 years ago. It is still running strong with almost 200,000 miles on it. I have put over $2,000. 00 in the transmission and a FASS fuel supply pump after my injection pump went bad 5 years ago. I never expect to see the 0216 code again. If I would have put the FASS on when I first bought the truck I would still have the original injection pump on it. For anyone who has not had the 0216 code yet put a better lift pump on the truck and save yourself a ton of money.
 
Well you could be right,however hasent been my expierence.

My truck has 483,000kms plus. has the original vp-44, transmission ,differential,vacuum/pumpsteering pumps,ac pump,water pump,ecm,pcm,exhaust manifold,grid heaters,transmission coolers,53 block.

The only items changed were apps, alternator, serpentine belt, 4 lift pumps.
 
Harlacher,

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you drive the truck another 200,000 to 300,000 with that new VP it will die. The VP is not a P7100, it is not rugged enough to go the distance. Another huge difference is the fact the VP44 has an electronic brain and would be nearly impossible for that brain to last that long considering the heat soak cycles it goes through. With BlackSheep there were many days I would start the engine in the morning and shut it off 700 miles later. Only one heat soak cycle per day. It still died at 262,000 miles. Oh, by the way, it had plenty of fuel courtesy of AirDog. FourBarR is one of the lucky folks.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
The lift pump was only designed to move fuel from IT to the injector pump, it is supposed to have fuel delivered TO it, it is a pusher pump. In other applications (not chrysler trucks) it is only stand alone when the fuel tank is right there. The pump was never designed to suck fuel from the tank. Chrysler was informed of this, but declined to put a pump in to deliver the diesel to the lift pump, saving a couple of bucks and costing their customers many thousands of dollars and great, great frustration. Chrysler also could have saved their owners a lot of grief by fixing the torque converter lock/unlock problem with a simple ground wire. The only shortfall of the cummins engine is it comes with a dodge wrapped around it
 
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BSander,

Not true. I owned a 1999 Freightliner Thomas school bus with the ISB. The fuel tank was on the right side of the bus behind the door. The lift pump was on the engine, same place, same pump as Dodge. The filter assembly was actually mounted on the driver side firewall, high above the pump. There was no second pump. I currently drive a school bus for another contractor who has several 2000 Freightliner Thomas with ISB, exact same set up. This year they have had to replace several lift pumps and several VP44's and the buses only have 50,000 miles on them. This problem is not isolated to Dodge.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
Great post BSander. Looks like we are all beating a dead horse. I was a TDR member for years, quit when I traveled around the US (all over Alaska) with my Dodge and a trailer. The original post must have came out during that time. Just renewed and wish I would have done it much quicker. I think the fact the lift pump is the weak link is documented very well. From what blacksheepdiesel has said sounds like other manufacturers have done the same thing. As a young man I worked as a diesel mechanic and remember the White RoadBoss trucks with the Cummins 230 and 250s in them. We had to do 100,000 mile overhauls to the engines; the brgs and other enternals looked like new. Sad to say I do not remember what injection pump they had. I do remember not having to worry about them. I wonder how long the VP44 has lasted after the addition of a better fuel supply source on the Dodge truck. I have about 70,000 miles on mine and like I said before I never expect to see the 0216 code again. I think FourBarR falls into that 5% rule which in this case is a good thing. Always exceptions to the rule.



Paul
 
Trent, I will bet that the fuel pump on the Freightliner is located at a position that is higher in reference to the lift pump than it is in the DC pickup installation. the Carter pummp is not meant to pull fuel and should be located aft near the tank at a lower spot so as to push the fuel. This is only "FLUIDS 101" Just think about it!!!



gtwitch in wyoming
 
Trent, I meant the fuel tank is located higher so as to supply fuel head pressure to the lift pump. Sorry!! again FLUIDS 101.



gtwitch in wyoming
 
The theme of my post was that I am not impressed with the R&D at Chrysler, not impressed with it at all. They make excellent products, with signifigant defects, defects that could have EASILY been corrected. It is simple engineering... The lift pump issue, the Torque converter lock up issue, both issues that have cost me THOUSANDS, but could have been prevented for a mere few bucks per vehicle. Does Chrysler know about these problems? Yup. Do they care enough to address them? Nope.

My Prowler lost a hubcap on the way home from the dealer, when I tried to buy a replacement, I was told that they were on back order due to high demand. When I got the replacement it, just like the one I lost, was poorly designed. The Prowler is another high end vehicle that should not have such issues, but it does. We have had enormous problems with our Chrysler Town and Country minivan. Little things like torque plates exploding, strut towers rusting through, transmission problems, expensive coolent leaks, etc. etc. etc. I am finding it hard to continue to support a corporation that does not support their products or their customers. I have not had any similar problems with my other vehicles. Those manufacturers stand behind their products. At least my two Cummins engines continue to deliver fantastic service with outstanding economey.
 
gtwitch,

Uhmm, nope! The engine in the Freightliner sits much higher than one in a Dodge and the fuel tank is no closer to the lift pump, maybe even further away and possibly lower in relation. As I stated above, the fuel filter is located on the drivers firewall which is a good 2' higher than the lift pump. The Freightliner situation is actually worse than the Dodge.

Guys,

While I agree wholeheartedly that DC could and should have done better engineering it is a moot point. If they built them the way you and I wish they would we couldn't afford them! They are in business to make money, period. The market dictates what a particular vehicle will sell for. If Dodge built them well engineered to last they would have very few sales because folks would buy Ford or GM instead because the would be less expensive. Can't make money by not selling vehicles.

I was simply responding to statements that were made along the lines of "DC is the only stupid manufacturer that did this with the Cummins" when that simply is not the case.

I have owned the Freightliner Thomas bus and three Dodge Cummins, one each of 1st Gen, 2nd Gen 12V, and 2nd Gen 24V and still have two of those trucks. With the exception of the bus which only had 55,000 miles on it when I sold it I have done work to all of them. In fact I am having the Dana 80 in BlackSheep repaired next week because a pinion tooth broke after 680,000 miles. I have replaced the VE pump once and the VP44 twice. Put head gaskets on two trucks. But it's ok because I work these trucks hard, not abusively, just hard. And they have far outperformed what a Ford or GM would have done, with fewer breakdowns to boot and still have a lot of life yet. Are they perfect? Absolutely not! But we aren't living in heaven yet, we are still on the outside of Eden.

I'm not flaming here guys, just trying to bring a little perspective.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
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Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising



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