Sorry to make this a new topic, but I haven't figured out how to reply to an existing topic. The upper dowel pin in the gear housing has fallen out in several Rams that I know about. I recommend degreasing and using Loctite sleeve mount on the new dowel/short block, or make up a 6" or so length dowel, tighten the housing-to-block bolts, and remove thee dowel (assuming the hole in your block is blind as usual). This problem persists in the ISB, and I think it is poor design. Either the hole in the gear housing should be blind (as the lower hole is for that dowel), or a stepped dowel should have been used.
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Not necessary. All you have to do is kiss the hole from the housing side and the dowel can't come out. The proper way to machine the housing would have been to pilot drill 1/32" undersize and ream from the engine side and stop 1/32" short of coming through.
Some moron thru reamed my housing . 3760 and allowed the slip fit dowel to work its way out at 80,127 miles. Anyway, kissing the hole with a ball bearing or a slight punch with a center punch to push the edge of the hole slightly will work fine.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Some moron thru reamed my housing . 3760 and allowed the slip fit dowel to work its way out at 80,127 miles. Anyway, kissing the hole with a ball bearing or a slight punch with a center punch to push the edge of the hole slightly will work fine.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
As long as my truck is still under the 10/100 warranty, let it fall out. . lol 
#ad
Woops, What was I thinking 10 Year warranty. It should be 7!
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1994 Dodge Ram SLT Cummins 5 speed 4x4,3. 54 gears, Scotty Air System,PIAA Platnum Super Whites,Optima red top batteries, manual trans filter,Turbo&Exhaust blanket,Magnaguard rear diff cover,Edelbrock IAS shocks,muffler removed,Borgeson steering shaft,Trailmaster steering stabilizers,Rancho upper & lower links,Polyurethane sway bar bushings,Skyjacker 2" leveling springs(front),Fabritech Stage II Traction Bars,Denman Coyote A/P LT305/85R16(36" Tall) tires on Stock Dodge Chrome 16x6. 5 wheels,Bushwacker Street Flares,Back-off saftey brake light,Bugflector II bug shield, Royal Purple ,Amsoil& Red line lubes throughout.
1970 Plymouth Cuda (under construction)
1968 Hurst HEMI® Dart , Nah its just a screen name ;-)
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
#adWoops, What was I thinking 10 Year warranty. It should be 7!
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1994 Dodge Ram SLT Cummins 5 speed 4x4,3. 54 gears, Scotty Air System,PIAA Platnum Super Whites,Optima red top batteries, manual trans filter,Turbo&Exhaust blanket,Magnaguard rear diff cover,Edelbrock IAS shocks,muffler removed,Borgeson steering shaft,Trailmaster steering stabilizers,Rancho upper & lower links,Polyurethane sway bar bushings,Skyjacker 2" leveling springs(front),Fabritech Stage II Traction Bars,Denman Coyote A/P LT305/85R16(36" Tall) tires on Stock Dodge Chrome 16x6. 5 wheels,Bushwacker Street Flares,Back-off saftey brake light,Bugflector II bug shield, Royal Purple ,Amsoil& Red line lubes throughout.
1970 Plymouth Cuda (under construction)
1968 Hurst HEMI® Dart , Nah its just a screen name ;-)
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
I think I follow what you said... . create a slight press fit?
Joseph, you can click on post reply to remark to a topic and then enter your forum password prior to entering the text of your reply.
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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement
Joseph, you can click on post reply to remark to a topic and then enter your forum password prior to entering the text of your reply.
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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement
Please don't assume that you are OK just because you have a warranty. The Dodge dealer in LaFayette was just going to replace my housing under warranty and send me on my way. This didn't sound good to me so I had the truck hauled away from there to Dodge of Chattanooga. There they found that when the dowel went between the crankshaft gear and the cam gear it dimpled the front camshaft bearing, dimpled the front crankshaft main bearing and caused the #1 connecting rod bearing to skuff. This AIN'T GOOD! The first solution from the service manager was an overhaul under warranty. Now I don't know about you but I would rather have an 80k mile engine with upset dowel holes so they can't come out than an on the floor overhaul job. We had further discussions on this and now I have the Cummins factory long block and I am a satisfied customer. This is not counting getting zero to 4 hours sleep per night for 2+ weeks wondering about my truck.
The point is HAVE YOUR DOWEL HOLES LOOKED AT OR FIX THEM YOURSELF AND MAINTAIN YOUR ENGINE'S 'AS BUILT FROM THE FACTORY' STATUS. This hasn't been as fun as you might think, My . 02 worth...
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
[This message has been edited by bboxall (edited 11-25-1999). ]
The point is HAVE YOUR DOWEL HOLES LOOKED AT OR FIX THEM YOURSELF AND MAINTAIN YOUR ENGINE'S 'AS BUILT FROM THE FACTORY' STATUS. This hasn't been as fun as you might think, My . 02 worth...
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
[This message has been edited by bboxall (edited 11-25-1999). ]
This dowl pin problem can affect any 12v or 24v engine if the timing gear housing is incorrectly machined. By incorrectly machined, I mean that the dowel holes in the housing are reamed completely thru instead of 80% thru from the engine side.
Next time you have your timing cover off, take a center punch or ball bearing and lightly smack the dowel hole so the dowel can't wiggle out and fall down on your timing gears.
I appreciate everyone's sympathy over this but I have to say that Dodge of Chattanooga is taking care of me on this and I should be on the road next week. The worst of this is called "ram withdrawal".
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Next time you have your timing cover off, take a center punch or ball bearing and lightly smack the dowel hole so the dowel can't wiggle out and fall down on your timing gears.
I appreciate everyone's sympathy over this but I have to say that Dodge of Chattanooga is taking care of me on this and I should be on the road next week. The worst of this is called "ram withdrawal".
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Bboxall,
When was your Truck and Engine manufactured? My background is Manufacturing, they probably had a batch of these with this same problem, so if we compare our engine manufacture date with yours we would know weather to take imediate action or if we might be less at risk.
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95-2500-ExtCab-LB-4x4-Auto-AMSoil Air Filter, Bypass Oil Filter by others, AMSOIL and Mobil Synthetics, TST 255HP and TransGO Shift kit .
When was your Truck and Engine manufactured? My background is Manufacturing, they probably had a batch of these with this same problem, so if we compare our engine manufacture date with yours we would know weather to take imediate action or if we might be less at risk.
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95-2500-ExtCab-LB-4x4-Auto-AMSoil Air Filter, Bypass Oil Filter by others, AMSOIL and Mobil Synthetics, TST 255HP and TransGO Shift kit .
I changed my mind about " as long as its under warranty, let it fall out". In my experience when factory or OE major components Engines, trans ect. are changed or disturbed, The truck is never the same. Also the aggravation that goes with dealing with the Dodge dealer. I could see it now, a new long block installed but half the sensors are not hooked up ect. Oil & Grease, dents & scrapes and leaks everywhere #ad
Thanks for the insight bboxall#ad
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1994 Dodge Ram SLT Cummins 5 speed 4x4,3. 54 gears, Scotty Air System,PIAA Platnum Super Whites,Optima red top batteries, manual trans filter,Turbo&Exhaust blanket,Magnaguard rear diff cover,Edelbrock IAS shocks,muffler removed,Borgeson steering shaft,Trailmaster steering stabilizers,Rancho upper & lower links,Polyurethane sway bar bushings,Skyjacker 2" leveling springs(front),Fabritech Stage II Traction Bars,Denman Coyote A/P LT305/85R16(36" Tall) tires on Stock Dodge Chrome 16x6. 5 wheels,Bushwacker Street Flares,Back-off saftey brake light,Bugflector II bug shield, Royal Purple ,Amsoil& Red line lubes throughout.
1970 Plymouth Cuda (under construction)
1968 Hurst HEMI® Dart , Nah its just a screen name ;-)
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
#adThanks for the insight bboxall
#ad------------------
1994 Dodge Ram SLT Cummins 5 speed 4x4,3. 54 gears, Scotty Air System,PIAA Platnum Super Whites,Optima red top batteries, manual trans filter,Turbo&Exhaust blanket,Magnaguard rear diff cover,Edelbrock IAS shocks,muffler removed,Borgeson steering shaft,Trailmaster steering stabilizers,Rancho upper & lower links,Polyurethane sway bar bushings,Skyjacker 2" leveling springs(front),Fabritech Stage II Traction Bars,Denman Coyote A/P LT305/85R16(36" Tall) tires on Stock Dodge Chrome 16x6. 5 wheels,Bushwacker Street Flares,Back-off saftey brake light,Bugflector II bug shield, Royal Purple ,Amsoil& Red line lubes throughout.
1970 Plymouth Cuda (under construction)
1968 Hurst HEMI® Dart , Nah its just a screen name ;-)
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
[This message has been edited by 1968 Hurst HEMI Dart (edited 11-26-1999). ]
You have to take the gear housing cover off the front of the timing gear housing. On page 9-160 in the DC's 1995 Factory Service Manual is says:
1. Remove fan drive assembly
2. Remove fan belt
3. Remove fan belt tensioner
4. Remove oil fill tube and adapter
5. Remove vibration damper (flywheel)
6. Remove the bolts that hold the gear cover to the gear housing.
7. Gently pry the cover away from the housing taking care not to mar the gasket surfaces.
8. Clean the old gasket residue from the back of the gear cover and front of the gear housing.
INSTALLATION
1. Lubricate the front gear train with clean engine oil.
2. Thoroughly clean the front seal area of the crankshaft. The seal lip and sealing surface on the crankshaft must be free from all oil residue to prevent seal leaks.
3. Install the gear housing cover and a new gasket.
4. Install the bolts but DO NOT tighten them at this time.
5. Use the alignment/installation tool from the seal kit to align the cover to the crankshaft.
6. Tighten the gear housing cover bolts to 18 ft. #
7. Remove the alignment/installation tool. Always use a seal pilot when you install a seal.
8. Apply a bead of Loctite 277 to the outside diameter of the seal. Install the pilot from the seal kit onto the crankshaft. Install the seal onto the pilot and start into the gear housing cover. Remove the pilot.
9. Use the alignment/installation tool and a plastic hammer to install the seal to the correct depth. To prevent damage to the seal carrier, hit the alignment/installation tool alternately at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions.
10. Install the oil fill tube and mounting bolts. Tighten the bolts to 32 ft. #
11. Install the vibration damper. DO NOT tighten the bolts to the correct torque value at this time.
12. Install the belt tensioner. Tighten the mounting bolts to 32 ft. #.
13. Raise the belt tensioner to install belt.
14. Tighten the vibration damper bolts to 92 ft. # torque. Use an engine barring tool to keep the engine from rotating during tightening operation.
Most of you may not want to tackle this at home so possible call and get a quote from your DC dealer or Cummins Service Center.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
1. Remove fan drive assembly
2. Remove fan belt
3. Remove fan belt tensioner
4. Remove oil fill tube and adapter
5. Remove vibration damper (flywheel)
6. Remove the bolts that hold the gear cover to the gear housing.
7. Gently pry the cover away from the housing taking care not to mar the gasket surfaces.
8. Clean the old gasket residue from the back of the gear cover and front of the gear housing.
INSTALLATION
1. Lubricate the front gear train with clean engine oil.
2. Thoroughly clean the front seal area of the crankshaft. The seal lip and sealing surface on the crankshaft must be free from all oil residue to prevent seal leaks.
3. Install the gear housing cover and a new gasket.
4. Install the bolts but DO NOT tighten them at this time.
5. Use the alignment/installation tool from the seal kit to align the cover to the crankshaft.
6. Tighten the gear housing cover bolts to 18 ft. #
7. Remove the alignment/installation tool. Always use a seal pilot when you install a seal.
8. Apply a bead of Loctite 277 to the outside diameter of the seal. Install the pilot from the seal kit onto the crankshaft. Install the seal onto the pilot and start into the gear housing cover. Remove the pilot.
9. Use the alignment/installation tool and a plastic hammer to install the seal to the correct depth. To prevent damage to the seal carrier, hit the alignment/installation tool alternately at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions.
10. Install the oil fill tube and mounting bolts. Tighten the bolts to 32 ft. #
11. Install the vibration damper. DO NOT tighten the bolts to the correct torque value at this time.
12. Install the belt tensioner. Tighten the mounting bolts to 32 ft. #.
13. Raise the belt tensioner to install belt.
14. Tighten the vibration damper bolts to 92 ft. # torque. Use an engine barring tool to keep the engine from rotating during tightening operation.
Most of you may not want to tackle this at home so possible call and get a quote from your DC dealer or Cummins Service Center.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Randy,
My truck is a '95 model and I am not sure (because the truck is still at Dodge of Chattanooga and surprisingly, it's not on my window sticker in the truck's file)
If I remember right, the DOM is May '95 but I will confirm Monday when I go buy to check progress. This will help very little in determining who has the problem because you don't know what the lot size is and this is probably a case of an incorrect tool length for a reamer stored in the control of a CNC mill.
The only way I know for sure to make sure your dowel pins can't fall out is to take the timing gear cover off and upset the holes. When I get my new truck, 2000 or 2001- I will do this or have it done within the first 1000 miles because I'LL NOT GO THROUGH THIS S**T AGAIN!
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
[This message has been edited by bboxall (edited 11-28-1999). ]
My truck is a '95 model and I am not sure (because the truck is still at Dodge of Chattanooga and surprisingly, it's not on my window sticker in the truck's file)
If I remember right, the DOM is May '95 but I will confirm Monday when I go buy to check progress. This will help very little in determining who has the problem because you don't know what the lot size is and this is probably a case of an incorrect tool length for a reamer stored in the control of a CNC mill.
The only way I know for sure to make sure your dowel pins can't fall out is to take the timing gear cover off and upset the holes. When I get my new truck, 2000 or 2001- I will do this or have it done within the first 1000 miles because I'LL NOT GO THROUGH THIS S**T AGAIN!
------------------
1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
[This message has been edited by bboxall (edited 11-28-1999). ]
Yep, you can't tell if the dowel is a problem unless you remove the front cover. And, there are two more steps to removing the gear housing: remove engine; remove camshaft. The camshaft gear is pressed on and so the camshaft must be removed to remove the housing. Since the lifters are mushroom type, this means either removing the engine and turning it on its side so the lifters will stay up, or removing the side cover and using hose clamps or something to hold the lifters up (this way you can leave the engine in).
I love my Cummins, but it sure ain't perfect. This dowel pin problem is a result of some very stupid engineering. IMHO Cummins has employed way too many expensive executives, cost accountants, and lawyers, and too few engineers with common horse-sense. Murphy rules! If it can go wrong, it will. Maybe not very many engines are affected, but it is a real pain when it does, and expensive if after warranty if gone.
If I have my parts in order, I think that none of the gears cover it. If this is correct, you could remove the tin cover, and look at the dowel. I think I would mask off everything and drill it. If it is hardened, and I think it is, use a carbide drill or burr. Tap it for threads, pull it out, and throw it away. The tightened bolts will continue to hold the cover in place.
The above is an ideal situation. The "fly in the ointment" comes from the probabilities that the dowel is very hard to drill and tap, the shavings must be kept out of the engine, and some of the dowels (most?) are in VERY tight. I tried one and could not turn it or loosen it with Vise Grips. While peening the aluminum housing seems like a good idea at first, aluminum is soft and cracks easily. If the dowel loosens and vibrates around, it will eventually wear through the peened-over aluminum.
I'd like to tell everyone to forget about it and that it is a very rare occurrence. However, I know of two cases in Las Vegas, and others were reported to me by Mark (TST)when I asked him about it. The cover usually breaks on the side as shown in the pictures submitted with this thread. However, in one case, the top of the gear housing broke out, bending the tin cover at the bolt over the injection pump. The dowel had been carried up the the pump gear and jammed against the bolt boss in the housing, breaking it open. Several quarts of oil were carried out by the gear train before the problem was noticed near the end of a highway trip. No noises or unusual things happened to clue in the driver until the oil pressure light came on for an instant when hitting the brakes.
Lesson to be learned: there is no warning, watch the oil pressure gauge and light, and carry at least 1 gallon of oil with you.
Joe
I love my Cummins, but it sure ain't perfect. This dowel pin problem is a result of some very stupid engineering. IMHO Cummins has employed way too many expensive executives, cost accountants, and lawyers, and too few engineers with common horse-sense. Murphy rules! If it can go wrong, it will. Maybe not very many engines are affected, but it is a real pain when it does, and expensive if after warranty if gone.
If I have my parts in order, I think that none of the gears cover it. If this is correct, you could remove the tin cover, and look at the dowel. I think I would mask off everything and drill it. If it is hardened, and I think it is, use a carbide drill or burr. Tap it for threads, pull it out, and throw it away. The tightened bolts will continue to hold the cover in place.
The above is an ideal situation. The "fly in the ointment" comes from the probabilities that the dowel is very hard to drill and tap, the shavings must be kept out of the engine, and some of the dowels (most?) are in VERY tight. I tried one and could not turn it or loosen it with Vise Grips. While peening the aluminum housing seems like a good idea at first, aluminum is soft and cracks easily. If the dowel loosens and vibrates around, it will eventually wear through the peened-over aluminum.
I'd like to tell everyone to forget about it and that it is a very rare occurrence. However, I know of two cases in Las Vegas, and others were reported to me by Mark (TST)when I asked him about it. The cover usually breaks on the side as shown in the pictures submitted with this thread. However, in one case, the top of the gear housing broke out, bending the tin cover at the bolt over the injection pump. The dowel had been carried up the the pump gear and jammed against the bolt boss in the housing, breaking it open. Several quarts of oil were carried out by the gear train before the problem was noticed near the end of a highway trip. No noises or unusual things happened to clue in the driver until the oil pressure light came on for an instant when hitting the brakes.
Lesson to be learned: there is no warning, watch the oil pressure gauge and light, and carry at least 1 gallon of oil with you.
Joe
The clearance for the dowel is a slip fit (. 001). There is no wiggle room in . 001, only slide.
I work in a custom design / build tooling shop that supplies automated tooling, weld systems, and robotic systems to the auto industry. Everything we design and build uses dowels for location. If we thru ream a part on a tool we always put a ball bearing over the hole and lightly tap it. This closes the hole slightly and prevents the dowel from falling out. I can promise you that the dowel is very untapable. If we break a dowel off we use a sinker edm to machine away its core and then dig it out. Another method of dowel removal is to set it up on a CNC machining center and cut it out VERY SLOWLY with a solid carbide cutter. Neither of the solutions will work on the dowel in the block. The ball bearing or center punch (your point about cracking the aluminum exists with the center punch) is the only practical way to solve the dowel situation in an assembled engine.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
I work in a custom design / build tooling shop that supplies automated tooling, weld systems, and robotic systems to the auto industry. Everything we design and build uses dowels for location. If we thru ream a part on a tool we always put a ball bearing over the hole and lightly tap it. This closes the hole slightly and prevents the dowel from falling out. I can promise you that the dowel is very untapable. If we break a dowel off we use a sinker edm to machine away its core and then dig it out. Another method of dowel removal is to set it up on a CNC machining center and cut it out VERY SLOWLY with a solid carbide cutter. Neither of the solutions will work on the dowel in the block. The ball bearing or center punch (your point about cracking the aluminum exists with the center punch) is the only practical way to solve the dowel situation in an assembled engine.
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
I just returned from Dodge of Chattanooga after looking at my new 12V long block almost ready to be installed. The timing gear housing's dowel location was reamed from the factory correctly and there is a heck of a step in the hole. This step will prevent the dowel from coming out. Sure wish my first one has been that way.
Almost back on the road!
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Almost back on the road!
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
For those of you who asked about Date of Manufacture on my engine with the dowel pin failure here is the info off the engine spec. plate:
Engine DOM 5/11/95
CPL 1550
Family SCE359D6DAAW
Engine # 562211362
Ref. # 53040096
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
Engine DOM 5/11/95
CPL 1550
Family SCE359D6DAAW
Engine # 562211362
Ref. # 53040096
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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler
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