dpf always on with red fuel

[JWadford]

before anyone freaks out over the red fuel thing, this is an off highway only truck, it is a 2008 t300 kenworth with a paccar 6. 7 cummins with 10000 hrs on the clock and 27000 miles, when i run ulsd highway fuel it runs great, when i run usld red fuel the dpf is always on, the check eng light is always on, truck cuts out and does weird stuff and smells like burning solvent in the cab, maybe its a coincidence, but im confused, its the same fuel, just one is red

 

[AH64ID]

Are you sure the red fuel doesn't have 500ppm of sulfur in it?

27000 miles and 10000 hrs is a 2. 7mph AVG!! Thats amazingly hard on a motor.

 

[LBARTLETT]

the red fuel probably is not low sulfur as needed by the 07' and newer engines, at least that is the case in farming country

 

[JWadford]

it is the same as our highway fuel, just with dye in it it is ulsd, the reason for high hours is its a service truck so it spends alot of time not just idle to run the stellar crane, and air compressor, however it does sit idle while i am welding...

 

[AH64ID]

Sounds to me like the red-dye is mislabeled...

 

[Austin Diesel]

According to our fuel dock off highway ULSD fuel Is dyed red and it has the same make up as on road clear highway fuel it is just red for tax purposes. same sulphur content .



Low sulphur 500ppm is available in mexico still.

 

[HBarlow]

I've read several interesting and believable posts in TDR and articles elsewhere by apparently knowledgeable people reporting that once a nationwide fuel changeover begins it would be so expensive and so impractical to pump two kinds of fuel through the national distribution pipelines that ALL fuel is ULSD.

I accept the opinion that all fuel sold in the US is probably ULSD. Can't offer an opinion why your KW doesn't like red died fuel. Maybe just the red dye chemical is picked up by the DPF and the ECM is notified that an "intruder" is in the DPF.

 

[GaryOwen]

I still have noticed the big truck pumps at Flying J have ULSD lanes and LSD lanes though. So maybe it is not all ULSD.

 

[LBARTLETT]

I believe real "farm fuel" is still LSD and not ULSD as the tractor motors are not prepared for the ULSD and you can still find multiple lanes like GaryOwen said at Flying J and other major truck stops, all of the car type lanes I've seen are ULSD

 

[HBarlow]

I believe real "farm fuel" is still LSD and not ULSD as the tractor motors are not prepared for the ULSD and you can still find multiple lanes like GaryOwen said at Flying J and other major truck stops, all of the car type lanes I've seen are ULSD

If tractor motors can't run ULSD because they weren't prepared for it how about all the thousands of older pre-2007 vehicles nationwide that weren't either but have no choice but to run on ULSD?

I know little to nothing about the nation's fuel pipelines but, as I wrote above, I've read posts and articles written by knowledgeable and convincing people who say that "it ain't so. "

They write that regardless of labels in some areas, all fuel is ULSD once the changeover has happened. If LSD and ULSD fuel were run down the same pipelines for nationwide distribution, which is how most fuel is distributed, it would be extremely difficult and expensive to clean all the thousands of miles of pipelines and storage tanks to remove any residual LSD fuel before ULSD fuel could be pumped.

 

[LBARTLETT]

You are probably correct and the signs are probably wrong, I had a friend who owned a John Deere dealership and I know they were concerned when this whole issue began with the long term effects of ULSD on ag. engines versus the previous LSD



This concern was much the same as years ago when the change was made from leaded premium gasolines to unleaded gasoline with lower octanes



you're probably 100% correct regarding the pipelines and ultimately we must run what we can buy on the market, the thread that has been active on "contaminated diesel" on the new 6. 7's has been interesting also, again, we buy what's on the market and if on the road we can get bad fuel or fuel that's improperly marked and/or marketed



in summary, I really don't know and I buy what I can get so my thoughts are uneducated guesses and assumptions, anyone active in the petroleum industry out there that can share how their company operates?

 

[HBarlow]

We're both making uneducated guesses and assumptions about fuel supplies. I don't know any more than you or the next guy do but I think the posts I've read by guys in the fuels industry are probably correct about actual supplies and labeling.

All we really know as consumers is we pump it, we pay for it, and we have to trust that it is the proper fuel and clean enough not to contaminate our trucks.

 

[BEmmert]

Yes there are still two different diesel fuels, one being ULSD for on road and LSD now for off road. I am a farmer and buy diesel in bulk quantities. When I asked the distributor if there was any difference he said that yes there is a difference between the two and I have quizzed him on this on more than one occasion. You can also tell the difference when its run though one of the service pickups on the farm, if you run the ULSD it has a different smell to the exhaust than does the LSD smell.

 

[LBARTLETT]

BEmmert, my understanding is the same as yours, I'm guessing it's much easier to get the old LSB farm fuel in rural Kansas, Iowa, etc than southern Calif. for example or other populated areas where the demand for dyed fuel is almost non-existent, almost every town in Kansas had a coop and dyed/farm fuel was very accessible, since moving to east Texas I can only think of two locations within a 60 mile radius where I live that even offer it, most of the ranchers and commercial business's I've met run road diesel in their equipment for that reason, my son-in-law runs backhoes & trackhoes in the "gas patch" and they run highway diesel in everything,



In summary I guess I'm saying geography probably plays a role in what's available depending on the amount of cultivated farming going on which greatly affects demand

 

[JWadford]

i got into a heated discussion with our general manager and he says he had the fuel tested and our red dyed fuel is the same as our highway diesel and i do believe him as we have multiple grades and weights of oils that get sampled weekly along with our fuels, the dpf must be having a hard time getting rid of the dye

 

[JWadford]

and as far as getting a blended ulsd with lsd from our supplier which is conoco phillips right off the train is unlikely, we burn over 80,000 gallons of red dyed diesel per day.

 

[LBARTLETT]

the dpf must be having a hard time getting rid of the dye

JWadford, very perceptive and interesting thought! Do you suppose it is the dye? I wonder what kind of chemical that adds to the fuel composition. Does anyone out there know? I'm sure it's not just food coloring

 

[Jeff Knight]

If you go on the Flying J website and look under diesel prices it has it listed as ULSD & LSD... Jeff

 

[BEmmert]

Well for what it is worth, I am in Eastern Washington State and its readily available far as I know. I have several friends who own excavation companies as well as many farmers and no one seems to have any trouble at getting their hands on the good red fuel, however I have heard rumors that in the next few years, the LSD will be phased out into the ULSD. Maybe they have already started that in the other areas and just hasn’t hit us yet… Don’t know, guess I will find out soon enough.

 

[Dieselnut59]

500 ppm fuel is still legal for sale as "off road" fuel, but not as "on road" fuel after Jan 1 2009. ALL "on-road" fuel is required to be 15 ppm. Some "off road" fuel is still 500 ppm or a blend of 500 and 15 ppm. As of Jan 1, 2010, ALL diesel fuel will be 15 ppm and the only difference in any "on road" versus "off road" fuel will be the red dye, which is added at the distributor. This is straight from two competing local distributors. Two years ago, I had to specify that I needed ULSD 15 ppm "off road" red fuel for my customer's 14 diesel forklifts. Then, it was "specific" for them, where the distributor added red dye to otherwise "on road" fuel and sold it without the road tax. Now, all his fuel comes in ULDS 15 ppm and the dye is added to all off road fuel. All the same fuel, just with added dye to identify no road tax.

As for your DPF, you could LEGALLY disable it, as your vehicle is being used exclusively off road. If you are getting 500 ppm fuel, you will clog/ruin the DPF anyway. Same thing will happen if my customer were to run 500 ppm fuel in his lifts, equipped with optional catalytic exhaust systems, for indoor use. It specifies 15 ppm max.