DPF cleaning; has anyone tried to...?

[truckmen]

Has anyone ever attempted to "wash out" their DPF filter? I'm in a jam and need to do something other than spending $2000.00+ on a new unit.

I have a 2014 Ram 3500 6-speed with 148,000 miles, 2111 idle hours and 3139 drive hours on it. I haul cars with a 4-car trailer and usually gross 28,000 - 32,000 lbs running 48 states.

I also need to learn what I can do about bypassing this emission garbage and will post another question about that separately.

 

[Eagle6.7L]

So truckmen what is wrong first,is the CEL light if so has it been decoded ? and why the 2000 plus dallors.Sag2 or Bob4x4 will be able to assist. They will correct me if I am wrong but DPF are a emission's related item and are covered under a more extensive warrenty program.Also there is a current recall going on for DPF emission parts,and including a software update to elimated the anomiona sensor and software related.Ram 2500 were being done first but it looks like it is moving into the 3500 as well.Before you removed all emission related parts you better make sure you are not smogging every year or every other year in the state in which you tag your truck in.You might want to PM either one of these tech's.Some times according to parts I have seen by the tech's at my dealership is that the DEF nozzle just needs cleaning or replaced.It becomes crystallized on the tip,thus the spray pattern becomes disrupted and does not atomized properly with NOx particle's

 

[Wayne M.]

The only way to clean a DPF is to bake it and blow out the ash. If there's no cracks or similar defect and flows properly, it should be good. You can't wash it.

 

[truckmen]

So truckmen what is wrong first,is the CEL light if so has it been decoded ? and why the 2000 plus dallors.Sag2 or Bob4x4 will be able to assist. They will correct me if I am wrong but DPF are a emission's related item and are covered under a more extensive warrenty program.Also there is a current recall going on for DPF emission parts,and including a software update to elimated the anomiona sensor and software related.Ram 2500 were being done first but it looks like it is moving into the 3500 as well.Before you removed all emission related parts you better make sure you are not smogging every year or every other year in the state in which you tag your truck in.You might want to PM either one of these tech's.Some times according to parts I have seen by the tech's at my dealership is that the DPF nozzle just needs cleaning or replaced.

Hi Eagle6.7L

Hey, thanks for the quick response.
I've just left the Fitzgerlad, GA Dodge dealership. They cleared the code for the Regen running with 100% blockage. Apparently, this was an incorrect code. According to the service managaer, I would not have been able to drive from Bangor, Maine to Fitzgerald, GA these past 3 days with 100% full on my DPF filter. So, I am in the clear for the time being.

And...yes! The manager also informed me of this recall and that I will need to wait until they catch up with the new demand.

The $2000+ was a quote for a new DPF filter

I don't have to concern myself with smogging or annual inspections but because I am commercially register and run 48 states, I will absolutely NOT delete anything. California is very aggresive on watching for this. But I would have done something else of which I cannot divulge here on this forum.

You also mentioned the "nozzle". I don't know what that is.

I'll try to watch this thread but am getting dispatched to Atlanta to load cars for Montana.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"2,111 Idle hours"

Is that a typo???

 

[Eagle6.7L]

Yes at your home base contact that dealership and set a appointment this is very very important thing to do,because this triggers a part's dept to contact warehouse and shipped when available to dealer.But appointment must be made if he is backlog "repeat" still get a appointment set for the recall also were you informed either by email or a letter to your home informing you of the VIN effected recall to your truck.Are you second owner if so you must update all VIN information by the service writer on your truck.Make sure address is current as well.May times people do not keep current with there dealership and this results in a lack of commuincation.Also when that regen comes you will not know it unless you hear the difference in the sound of the exhaust.Do you have a CST II this is a must need for over the road.It gives you a host of information a 250.00 plus you will need the A-piller adaptor.To mount the CTS II or I. I am not sure which one works for the 2014 6.7L.You know of course you fall under a different service requirements for axle,transmission as well also look to your heat exchangers to make sure they are cleaned out because the slightest degree effects everything down line.The DEF nozzle is what shoots DEF into the stream of very hot soot particle's.You must be sure you complete regen's and allow them to do there thing.If you turn it off I am not sure until Sag2 or Bob confirm programme but it will just continue to do so until the exhaust flow is measure within a certain parameter down stream which means you will continue to burn more fuel run hotter and use DEF.Also use very high quality DEF,because does Love's and Pilot use a filteration system in there DEF.Contamination is the biggest problem with DEF nozzles and the spray pattern's.Also I see your mileage and your emission warrenty is almost expired as a car hauler you sure you do not want to get RAM extended warrenty they are offering 750.00 dallors off the Plantium program right now.I recommend that to all hot shotters I see running the interstates it just makes good business sense.Down time is a real drag because you lose your next auction pickup.That is money lost.No good amigo....Vacations,Christmas etc etc...

 

[Wayne M.]

Eagle, you did say DPF nozzle, which some systems do have, and the DEF nozzle does not spray on sooty exhaust. please take a break until the exalted ones come in board.
I am not a Ram tech, but I am Ford and Class 8 diesel emission experienced. I also have SCR equipped QSB 6.7's too but they're so trouble free I don't touch em. All these systems work similarly.
Truckmen, I doubt you had 100% soot load or you'd be in derate to where you couldn't drive it. Do you really have 66% idle time? If so, maybe you should consider a APU to cut layover idling.
Please start over and give us the WHOLE story, and perhaps find a second dealer that has a Cummins trained tech in board. Also, there's no way to bypass anything. The way you're running, that rig should be real happy.

 

[spoon059]

The way you're running, that rig should be real happy.

Yea, kinda my thoughts as well. Hauling heavy weights over long distances is about the best thing you can do for the DPF.

 

[Eagle6.7L]

Wayne M. Actually MOPAR parts calls it a dosing valve but it does spray DEF fluid which it is called a dosing event but that's Cummins Engineering. Giving him advise to go to another dealer I did not quite get that it was already found to be coded with a false code for soot level it was cleared and like Truckman said the "service writer said I doubt you were at a 100 percent".Wayne also I said DEF not DPF (Diesel Exhaust fluid DEF) and (DPF is Diesel Particle Filter),if you follow Truckmans statement a SCR replacement is in the works for our man Flint here,plus removel of the amonima sensor and programing as well as some other flash's he is possible due as these guys who haul cars coast to coast everyday have little down time for these trucks.Here is a picture that my tech at my dealership took when he removed my SCR for recall.By the way my SCR had 28,000 miles on it and was found with no SCR inner liner deteration due to heavy DEF dosing events trigger by false soot levels.I myself experience no of those such things,the tech found no codes other than the RFM module faulting...Hence was many of complaints or wonderment as to why water was coming out of many of exhaust connection band clamp.Also is it Nitrous oxides that is sprayed or dosed with DEF to me it is sooty and would not what to touch it or breath it despite the absorbtion rate by the DP Filter. Amazing that just water shoots out the back. Here is a picture of a DPF filter doing it job.This was upstream of my SCR CatalystView attachment 99060Hey Wayne keep on trucking.Anybody go to May Madness and what's is in store for us from Ram and Cummins is Cummins gonna whipped up to a 1000 ft pounds of torque.For the next generation Ram 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.Hard to believe they are going to the next generation so soon.I like this truck more complex than my 5.9L but still the ride and interior is spot on.I pull are 5th wheel and there are days when I can sit in the saddle and ride for around 10 hours and not feel bad at all coming out of the truck.And Truckman get that coverage you are currently running around 50,000 a year.Dam man that's alot in the saddle time..

 

[gsbrockman]

"2,111 Idle hours"

Is that a typo???

I was thinking similarly......

I am at 256,018 miles, 447 idle hours, and 4,740 drive hours as of tonight.

 

[Wayne M.]

Yup, I'm trucking with my pre DPF Ram, however I still take issue with some of what's going on here.
If I understand, The dealer let him go without really figuring out what's going on, and just resetting his soot without knowing his differential pressure among other things and not getting a stationary regen completed or giving a solid answer before putting him back on the road is not good.
If ammonia sensor = NOx sensor, then you have to have them and reading for SCR dosing and EGR mixing to happen to manage the NOx levels. It's the DEF when sprayed into the exhaust stream before the SCR cat at the right temp/amount that reduces NOx further and a byproduct of that reaction is water vapor, ammonia and CO2, among other things which is all ok. It's ok to see water/ vapor.
Since most folks kinda understand gasoline EFI, I like to draw the similarity that the DEF dosing and the reading/ feedback of the NOx sensors is similar to gasoline EFI and Oxygen sensors and how they feed back.
Eagle, if you have any soot that you can see, like at your tailpipe, you have a problem, so why do you describe a sooty deal?
I'd love to get to May madness, but it's just too far for me. The future is bright for diesel- despite all the government scandals going on. There's a version of the 6.7 out there, not for the Ram, I read about that's doing away with EGR, and economy is even better.

 

[TCDiesel]

You can use WITECH to cause Aggressive Regen... I've NEVER had any 6.7 DFP NOT clean itself up unless it was defective, at times it takes 2-3 attempts but it work and it smells ugly during the process. be out side on windy day. and change oil afterwards.

 

[sag2]

I will try and clear up a couple things here. In the old days there were a few dealers that were known to "wash" the DPF with water. They first tapped the DPF on a block of wood inlet side down to get some of the ash to drop out. They then used water in the outlet with the DPF sitting on the inlet to wash some additional amount of ash out. The problem was the proper disposal of the ash and soot. It had to be contained and disposed of legally. The next problem was not letting it dry before installing and running the truck. The water was trapped inside the substrate and turned to steam when it got hot. The steam expanded and cracked the DPF which ruins it.
In this case the first thing that has to be done is identify the underlying reason for the CEL. Unless you find the cause you will just plug the OEM DPF or plug a new $2k DPF and ruin it immediately. As was said this truck in proper running condition is the best case for long aftertreatment life. I doubt the SCR CAT recall will solve his problem, but it should be done as soon as possible as it does eliminate one more potential problem. I would also invest in an inexpensive scanner or phone based OBDII scanner just to have with me on the road.
Also if the DPF was 100% plugged the truck will not stay running. We used to have to pull the O2 sensor out to get them into the shop from the tow truck. That was back in the 2007.5 days, things improved dramatically in the year or two after the introduction.

 

[Eagle6.7L]

Wayne M. After talking with my CDJR Cummins tech's they believe that and they reminded me they are not Cummins firmware or software writers,but that the sensors are reading a high flow pressure differential reading when in fact the DPF cansiter's looked clean. So a CDJR dealership must excersise caution when removing and replacing parts. When if fact Cummins would denied warrenty,were as the tech and the dealership eat the cost. As I have pointed out before the S85 recall is to removed and replace the SCR Catalyst container,and the amonina sensor,and cap the line.And then flash update the ECM it looks to be some programing language to reflect the loss of the amonia sensor.And possibly more lanaguage that tech's are not aware of. So the misunderstanding you are having about just clearing a code appears to be short sighted.Due possibly to the fact that the understanding of the recall..The CDJR Cummins tech was smart in ending the constant regen process every time he started the truck base on false reading or tolerence level's caused by the firmware strict pressure sensor differential readings triggering a regen.Which will degraded over time the SCR inner liner hence Truckmans 148,000 miles and the 2000 plus idle time (waiting to pass inspection points along interstates and weight points) so Cummins decided to issue a recall along with FCA to remove all cat's which i throught was over kill to the max and removed the amonia sensor and flash updated some firmware code...But the Cummins tech stated to me that the DEF water pouring from the band clamp which they had seen was excessive to warrant a action because some owners throught it was fuel,so there you go the hat and the cat...Truckmans CDJR Cummins tech may also have removed the band clamp and peeked inside to look at the DPF Cat canister "shot a picture and sent it to tech"and found it to look possibly just like mine did.I mean I believe the tolerence for the pressure reading's is very tight in allowance hence when they did my recall if showed no deteration of the SCR CAT container. And the DPF canister was really clean.But again I am just the messenger and Bob or Sag2 probably shed light onto this.Because it is a emisson related issue so RAM warranty may have been notified as to the tech's findings and the agree direction by the tech and the hotline to return the truck to service....Look also to the Tier 5 now coming for European Union. Cummins next generation of offroad,mining,highway has elimated the EGR system completely,and compacted into one unit the DOC,DPF,SCR into one module this maybe the pictures that many spy auto shotters reported over the rockies that showed a revised emission under the trucks frame assembly just aft of the rear passenger door..And Cummins also has incorporated "stop-start" tech into this next generation of Stage 5 powertrains the F3.8,B4.5,B6.7 and the L9.Cummins.

 

[Wayne M.]

TC and sag, when using witech during a commanded regen, can you see PIDs like DPF diff pressure and NOx values? I'd like to see a screenshot if it's not too much trouble. And is the ammonia sensor the NOx sensor in a different name? And are they really eliminating one?
Where's the OP, I thought we would hear from him.
Eagle, yes Cummins has had a HD all in one aftertreatment package and now Mack/Volvo has one. Mack/Volvo now also has a particulate matter sensor which is in the final part of the stack to raise a flag if PM does get by the aftertreatment package.
Now that the numbers they've been chasing are at an awesome level, the gov is targeting Greenhouse Gases like CO2. 2023 will be the next hurdle. Thank God Trump pulled out of the Paris Accord. That would have been a huge problem!

 

[jhenderson]

There are several European companies that offer on the vehicle cleaning kits. They inject a solution into the DPF through the pressure differential sensor. The videos are on UTube. Do any of the techs here think that's a viable alternative to shipping plugged DPF units off to a company that washes and bakes DPFs?

 

[Eagle6.7L]

Wayne M, if not mistaken here after attending a RAM Trade show meeting..NOx is a term used to discribe Nitrous Oxide's.DEF introduced upstream reacts with the NOx.. The Ammonia sensor located on the aft end of the SCR detects excess ammonia in the exhaust gas thus allowing for a more percise dosing of urea or DEF upstream.This was suppose to added for more percision in the SCR system's overall effciency and prevents the release of excess ammonia into the atmosphere.I believe Delphi manufactures the ammonia sensor for Cummins not sure if it was the early models of this generation and then was returned in house at Cummins and ultimally made in China.LOL, but when looking at my Ammonia sensor and geezzz what was it called but I think it was the tech called it a logic board or Sensor Control Module for the ammonia sensor it I also think it was a Delphi product but made in China as well.

 

[p-Bar]

Truckman calcs out to 28 mph doesn't make sense for a hotshot?

I was thinking similarly......

I am at 256,018 miles, 447 idle hours, and 4,740 drive hours as of tonight.

 

[Ram4Sam]

You could always call this guy.......

http://dpfmedic.clickforward.com/se...g-m92863-c218781-g958149-dpf+cleaning+machine

 

[jhenderson]

The service may be priced right but I'm afraid the road charge would tip me over.