Dr Perpormance a misnomer

[dusty]

Just awile ago some fool came to the RV park where I'm hanging out and left a flyer on my rig. pissed me off so i jumped on the web and sent this to dp.

being the stand up type and fisty I also left them hy email address



Some one came into my RV park in Wilsonville, probably from Albany and left a flyer on the windshield of my truck. First of all that individule needs to be aware that is against our rules and won't be tolerated. Anouther infraction will result in a formal complaint the the A. G. office and subsiquent leagal action by our attorney.

Fruther the claims in the flyer are misleading at best! Tandamount to false adervertising. As an mechanical engineer and with chemical engineering back round the claims represented are false.

1) fuel atomizes at a rate consistant with the amount of air molicules that are introduced.

2) in this chemical reaction there will always be a limiting and excess regent meaning that not all off one will be consumed; this conforms to the Law of Constant Composition.

3) simple algebaric calculations will reviel that fuel plus oxygen = h. p expotentionaly therefore no gain in "fuel efficency" + EGT increases due to simple combustion; translation false advertisement

4) "propriatry technology is exclusive to DP only, the benifts obtained form this combustion efficiency process are not available from any other source; two lies we all know parts for this purpose can be obtained elswhere

5) there is no alternative to DP & DP the leader in diesel performance Tech; two more lies

6) "microscopic fuel plum distribution is known as atomization

7) " Our most popular systems will not raise exhaust temps above acceptable limits even when you use extra power(ie: more fuel and oxygen)(more wood on the fire = more heat that is a law of phyics and common sence) - because we do not add more fuel than your engine is already desinged to burn" more bull. the stock fuel delivery system produces 12psi and thats all; the ecm will detect an overboost condition and cut back, why don't you tell the public those facts?

8) the claims about piks peak, bonnivile, quickest p. u are not saying that the truck in referance to was using modifications not offered by you such as propane injection(anouther form of nitrous oxcide which may ave been used also)

9) stop hiding under the Magnuson Act and admit these types of modifications will void any warenty

10) anyone foolish enough to approch my rig with the above mentioned flyer should be bright enough to notice I don't need yor product and whould stay away.

11) just to make it clear once again stay away from this RV park!!!!

 

[SteveH]

Hey Dusty, take a deep breath, count to ten, and take a big valium before you have the big one. Use your spell checker and it will add a little more to the post. Don't call someone a liar when your information is for the most part incorrect. Even Dodge will tell you that the DP doesn't void any warranty. The vendictiveness of your post makes us think that there is more behind the scene than there is in front of it.

Steve H.

 

[HVAC]

OK

QUOTE:



"Even Dodge will tell you that the DP doesn't void any warranty. "



I would like to check this out. Whick Dodge dealer would you recommend I call to verify your claim?

 

[John]

Huh?

Originally posted by Steve H

Even Dodge will tell you that the DP (Dr. Performance) doesn't void any warranty

Are you serious? Just about the only Dodge dealer that would NOT deny warranty service on your Dodge Ram with Dr. Performance enhancements was Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg, ID. (which has an alliance with Dr. P. ). I say was, as even they got reamed by DC over this issue a year ago or so. Maybe Dave Smith is bankrolling the warranty repairs on Rams with Dr. P. upgrades however, I would doubt very seriously they are getting any monetary backing from DC.



The Magnuson/Moss act won't do sh*t when it comes to increased power levels made by You the consumer (or Dr. P. or Dave Smith Motors)... "the increased power placed additional stress on the engine and drivetrain"..... see how this works? The case can be made that the additional stress on the engine and/or drivetrain caused the failure. It's your money... just spend it to prove otherwise.



..... your warranty is in your back pocket... it's called your wallet!



..... like they say, speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?



..... remember, when you make power modifications to your Ram, you are your own warranty station. If you have a sympathetic dealer that will warrant the repair fine, however, most won't. He!!, I just sucked another lift pump tonight on the way to work (second lift pump including the OE pump)... there is NO WAY with all the modifications I've made to my Ram they will honor my (extended) warranty on the pump... even though the lift pump is a poor design at best) and installed in a lousy location. I know of MANY first hand warranty deniles for lift pumps and VP44 injection pumps due to modifications made to the Rams in question. I still dispute warranty denial to the lift pumps for several reasons:



1) they are poorly engineered



2) they have a proven high failure rate (even new ones right out of the box from Cummins or Dodge)



and 3) they are not located in a place that is conducive to long life (i. e. , heat next to the engine... located too far away from the fuel tank... electric fuel pumps work much better pushing fuel than pulling it)



The bottom line is this; it's not worth my time and effort to try and reason with Dodge or Cummins (the lift pump that just failed was purchased from Cummins) for any kind of warranty replacement pertaining to the failed unit. In fact, I was waiting for just such a case so I can implement Operation Infinite Fuel Delivery ( )... or at least complete it.

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

First off, I am not knocking anybody's product in any way. I would just like to say that there is something to the combustion effeciency claims made by DP. I have a Phase III kit on my '99 and have never seen EGT's in excess of 1250. This includes a trip through the Rockies and a run on the dyno. Before the dyno run I thought that maybe DP was full of it, but after talking to guys in the same power range who said that there EGT's would easily climb to as high as 1500+, I became a believer when my truck was to the floor for 30 seconds and it didn't go over 1200 on the same dyno and day.



I had a Bank's Stinger Plus on this truck previously, and the DP kit absolutely crushed it in every respect. The only thing I didn't like was the lack of smoke, so I added a VA.



I think that most people knock DP because of his attitude. I personally thought that he was very personable in person, but that's my opinion. Maybe I just happened to meet him on a good day.



I am not saying that DP is the "only" product out there, but I would definately make the same purchase again.

 

[Archive]

Will my Dr. Bank's Bully Dynamic Edge Aiken Blue Diablo Box void my warranty??? ( I very carefully never run it at a higher combination setting than 18smoker/18yeehaw. )

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

ROADWARRIOR,



What was your trucks dyno #'s. For a little less money than the phase 3, I got 500+hp and can adjust the EGT's on the fly with my comp box. If your happy that's great, but my opinion is that you don't get what you pay for with Dr. P.



John,



I was talking to the guys at Dave Smith Dodge at Seattle while we were racing and they said that they aren't dealing with Dr. P anymore, and they have switched to DD and Edge. I don't know how long ago they switched.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Hmmmm something here just does not fit. I ran into a guy here in town and he had Dr. P stage II bombed truck. He was told by Dr. P to run his pyro post turbo. Dr. P told him that 1300 post turbo was safe.



and I could match him with just 275's



Road Warrior, where is the thermocouple for your pyro located?

 

[EScott]

Re: Huh?

Originally posted by John





Are you serious? Just about the only Dodge dealer that would NOT deny warranty service on your Dodge Ram with Dr. Performance enhancements was Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg, ID. (which has an alliance with Dr. P. ). I say was, as even they got reamed by DC over this issue a year ago or so. Maybe Dave Smith is bankrolling the warranty repairs on Rams with Dr. P. upgrades however, I would doubt very seriously they are getting any monetary backing from DC.

There was a huge fallout between Dave Smith, and DP. At this point I don't even think DP is still in Idaho. Dave Smith is now installing a hodgepodge of components in house and are still the only dealer who will honor the work if warranty is ever needed.

 

[MUDDY]

dr p

imo, dr p falsely advertises hp and tq claims.



a long time ago when i knew no better, i was talked into going with the dr p phase 2 and selling my mopar uprate ecm, which was another choice that wasnt the best, and my 275s.



before the swap, i took my loaded rig up the test hill. checked time and speed. got the dr p installed, and tried the test hill and lost 7 mph. also egt went up with their kit over my uprate ecm and 275s. they advertise egt to stay down. this is an out and out lie. they even tell folks not to buy gauges cause they wont need them. how stupid.



now my uprate ecm and 275s added approx 120 lb ft trq, at the most, right. the phase 2 is advertised to add 200 lb ft trq. why did i loose 7 mph on the hill.



then the dealer that installed the kit asked me to drive their dr p demo for a comparison. it had a phase 2. i drove it and it didnt have the tq of the first dr p demo that dr p at kellog installed a kit on when dr p was trying to get this dealer set up as a franchise. this 1st demo ran awesome. imo, and the opinion of the dealership, dr p installed a phase 3 on the first demo to get the dealership to sign up, having them think this is how a phase 2 would run . this is fraud and deceit.



fortunately, the dealers shop reinstalled my old kit, n/c. i then went on my way and did other things to get the power i wanted. cheaply.



the dr p kits cost way too much money, and in the 24 hrs i had the kit mileage was not increased, but egt was over my other kit. and tq was lost. a bad decision, but i knew no better at the time.



for 25 percent of the money of a phase 3 kit, which is advertised to add 300 tq, which probably adds only 200 tq, to the flywheel, you can add a fueling timing box, the ez for example, which has a built in boost module, and a set of dd2 injectors. these mods will give you approx 359 of tq increase at the fly wheel. and slightly better mpg, and an honest 150 degree lower egt.



imo, dr p is dishonest, to say the least, and his kits are a waste of money.



with all the GOOD power enhancers out there, at a REASONABLE price, dont make a mistake and fatten dr p. s wallet and drive away with an inferior kit.

 

[SteveH]

Hi EVAC, call the Montana Dodge 5 Star dealership in Billings, MT and they will not only tell you they warranty the DP but they will also install it for you. Easy to check out if you really want the truth, a simple phone call.

As far as some of the other examples of DP, this is just opposite of the experience I had with them. My Phase II added tremendous torque to my rig and nearly 100 HP AT THE REAR WHEELS. I can now pull my 31 foot 5th wheel in 5th gear through all but the biggest of passes up here in the Rockies, not able to do this before the Phase II. DP made no deceptive or fraudulent claims that I am aware of and were very above the board in their dealings with me. I can now burn all 4 rear tires and leave scratch for about 50 feet when I take off if I want to. I'd say this was a pretty good HP increase. You do have a legitimate claim on their prices being a little stiff, but what the heck. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it.

After my DP was installed the speed gained is pretty impressive. Seems to me like 24 hours is a pretty short time to come up with any dependable data in which to make some of these claims.

Do you think that maybe there are several good bombing additions out there in diesel land and no one of them is really that much better than the others for ALL diesel applications?

nuff said

Steve H

 

[MUDDY]

dr performance, performance my foot

Originally posted by Steve H

My Phase II added tremendous torque to my rig and nearly 100 HP AT THE REAR WHEELS. seems to me like 24 hours is a pretty short time to come up with any dependable data in which to make some of these claims.



Steve H

steve, did you dyno the rig to find that it got an additional 100 hp at the rear wheels. phase 2 is advertised to get this. my uprate ecm and 275s were only advertised to add 43 hp and still whipped the dr p kit. also 120 tq vs the phase 2 200 tq increase. this = 7mph decrease on the hill compared to my old kit.



im glad you are happy with your phase 2. i was so p. o. ed with mine i didnt even want to drive home with this overpriced failure installed.



also steve, i tested the dr p kit for 24 hrs cause they didnt have time to remove it 20 minutes after it was installed. 10 minutes from the shop to the top of the test hill was all it took for me to realize i had been royally screwed.

 

[SteveH]

Hey muddymess,

Yes we did dyno my rig before and after the Phase II. It was 197. 1 hp at the rear wheels before modification and 299. 7 after the modification. Really didn't need a dyno to tell me that I had gained a bunch of hp though, it moved like a bat out of the proverbial hades after the upgrade. I haven't regretted the DP for a minute. We pulled Raton Pass this summer in 4th gear passing everything in sight, topping the pass at over 60 mph. Have never been able to do this before the upgrade.



I'm not trying to sell any of the DP upgrades, simply stating that some of us have had great results from the upgrade and don't feel that there was any deception or fraud in dealing with DP at all. Doc Sadler is a little "rough around the edges" to say the least but his personality has nothing to do with how my truck runs now. I've turned into an 18 yr old hot rod now driving this thing and I'm close to retirement. I'm also not saying that some of the other upgrades are just as good and less expensive. Maybe something wasn't set-up correctly in some of these DP units with the complaints. Could be, ya know?

Steve H.

 

[Diesel Freak]

hmmmm looks like Dr. P modifications work on 12 valves better than they do on 24 valves. Coincidence?



Muddymess= 24 valve



Steve H. =12 valve



BTW DR. P's land speed truck has a "P" Pump



those of you with the DR P ECM reflash, what is your MAX RPM?



Is it 2600 after the reflash? I think you know what I am hinting at.

 

[Cummnzpowr]

NOT!

Steve H:

I was thinking stupidly about buying a 96' dually that had a Dr. P phase 4 kit on it and some extra pump tweaks,he made 371 rear wheel horses on the dyno, while dozens of other well known and respected TDR top dawgs watched in Vegas at Silver State Motor sports. So don't even go there with 299 HP with a stage 2,so that means that if you're correct, the phases between 2-4 only give 45 or 50 horse between each other? why would DR. P offer such moderate increases,at such a high $ ??? Listen to Stefan,he knows his I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER, and his and his pop's trucks are no joke... . plus, my first gen with 251 rear wheel HP can keep up with that dually,of course he had a different turbo housing which burned me off the line,but i was able to hang with him... .

 

[BIG BOB]

Right on Stefan!

I'm with Stefan!



Roadwarrior,



Correct me if I am wrong, you spent about 32-3300 for DP stage III. For your $ you might have 350 HP if you are lucky.



I have over 450+ HP with $2550 invested. This includes a HX40, BDIII injectors, PE Comp and Jardine exhaust.



You said that you were on the dyno, what were your numbers?

I'm not sure when you got your DP and Banks kits. My guess it was probably before you joined TDR, and DP and Banks were probably the only performance enhancements you knew about. Stay tuned to TDR and you'll learn a lot about performance. That's great you are happy. Stick around here and you will be a lot happier.

 

[sam peterson]

I don't know much about all that scientific stuff but I can tell you that the PH III that i have on my dually does the job. It goes best with 14000 lbs of trailer on the back and if you want smoke i've got it. The mileage stayed the same as stock and best of all is i don't have to fiddle with it. turn the key and go. I must admit the price was a bit much. Have had trans & driveline warrenty at the dealer and they recognized the power difference but didn't seem to care when i told them what it was----Sam

 

[SteveH]

Cummnzpowr, doubt whatever you wish, the dyno doesn't care who or what is installed, only the HP at the rear wheels and that number is 299. 7. Believe whatever you wish, I'm not trying to "win" you or anyone else over. I was unaware that DP offered a Phase4. The DP installer for this area doesn't know anything about a Phase 4 so maybe your buddy was pulling your leg a little and really has the Phase 3 installed. Phase 3 is the biggest increase I have seen advertised. Like I said before, if you're happy with your bombing, Great! I know what I have, know what it will do, and am extremely happy with it. Cutting my set-up down from afar without any knowledge of what I have isn't what this thread is supposed to be about.

Steve H.

 

[MUDDY]

extremely expensive low power upgrade

steve,

there is a stage 4 and 5 in the brochure.

the website doesnt list these anymore, but it did in the past.



http://www.drperformance.com/available_kits/gm/gm.html



i hope you dont think im bashing your setup just to be bashing. you have the 12v and apparently your kit works to your satisfaction. although a great expense.



my 24v kit was very dissapointing and didnt live up to the dr p claims. so i say its fraud and deceit.



i dont want anyone else to make the mistake of getting an overpriced kit that gives less power than claimed. at the time i had no acess to the tdr and other than the dealer, a few people who claimed to be experts, and advertising in 4x4 mags for the overpriced banks products, i had no idea of the great efficient economical priced BOMBS available to enhance our mighty engines.



from the start, i made bad choices, starting with the overpriced uprate ecm that gives minimal power. and i love my power puck, but if i did it all over again id go the ez because of the built in boost module saving dollars. i had to spend extra for the ps. also i wasted time and dollars on the 275s as i found the dd2s are mandatory for the ultimate power trip



if folks here voice their opinion, other folks learn.



there are cheaper more efficient bombs available for the 12 and 24v cummins. also i hate to see anyone support dr p, an outfit that deceives with false advertising. and a company which charges obscene prices for their product.



boy, look at their website. you think prices for kits for the cummins are high. look at the d-max prices. and also prices for the bigger rigs. shame on dr p.



im just glad i didnt get stuck with that dr p garbage. and now i have much more tq with much lower egt for much less money. and better mpg.



just my opinion and thanks for the chance to vent.

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

Stefan, Diesel Freak,



The dyno at the TDR Rally we were at may have been somewhat questionable. The owner said that it had just been calibrated. I spun the dial that maxed at 380hp. They did get a torque reading of 942 lb. ft. and an engineer there calculated 448hp. This was with the VA CPC installed. I am not saying this is Gospel, but a '96 12 valver ran 230hp after me with 215 hp injectors. Another guy said that he had his dynoed someplace else before and it was within 20 hp.



I was able to get a large discount off of the price because I drove out to Idaho. Maybe DP gave me more for my dollar than normal. My truck is substantially stronger than the phase two trucks that I have been in. When I was in Kellogg they had about a dozen new Dave Smith trucks on the lot with Phase II kits and they all had 90 to 115 hp increases on their dyno sheets.



I have my thermocouple preturbo where my origional Bank's kit recommended installing it. I'm not knocking anybody's stuff, I just like the fact that any dummy(mechanic, girlfriend, etc. ) could be in my truck with their foot planted and I wouldn't have to worry about them adjusting a box or their foot to keep my EGT's in check.



Dan