'DREAM garage' + 1850's vintage house = ?

[HoleshotHolset]

Would you buy it?



It's a foreclosure... so I can get it reasonably cheap. ~1200ft² house, ~14,000ft² lot, old mechanicals, new windows (except for a few), newer vinyl siding, newer electrical (everywhere), new plumbing all around, needs paint/wallpaper/floor covering pretty much everywhere and a new roof. The place seems crooked when looking at it from the outside... more on that later...



What really worries me most about the place (besides the age... ) is that the foundation is rock/mortar and it leaks big time. To top it all off... only 1/2 of the basement floor is cement... the rest is mud. The beams/joists have been 'jacked' up in several places to help with the house settling.



In a perfect world - I'd like to knock the house down and put up a new one in its place.



The garage is a (no more than 5 years old... ) 30'x30' masterpiece... one big overhead door and a smaller one. Poured foundation/floor, etc. The height of the garage is enough to have a lift... in fact - there is blatant evidence that there used to be a lift in the garage. The garage/location is perfect... but the house needs some pretty serious help. I estimate that to replicate a garage like this... it would cost about $30k



Anyone ever deal with replacing a foundation? Quick estimates range from $10k-15k... .



I was thinking of snatching it up... living with a cooked house for a few years (hopefully save some money)... and then put up something in its place. Like a modular or 'SIP' house...



As you can see - I'm sold on the property because of the location and the garage.



Moral support, advice, criticism, and dope slaps appreciated... :-laf



Matt

 

[Mactruck]

Hey Holeshot...

I would get it! Your going to be spending most of your time in the garage anyway!!! :-laf



I have lived in a similair house (ie circa 1850's farmhouse) with a stone (granite) foundation and partial dirt floor (added concrete later)



I loved it and with the way homes are being built today (shoddy Const. ) I think it would last another 150 years.



But as you may know homes of this age need money for upkeep so be prepared.



Good luck!

 

[PJereb]

Depends on how much time you have.



I work constantly on my 1973 POS home. I will never buy another slab built home again, and I will never buy a project home again... ..... unless I made a career change, and had a bunch of time on my hands.



Here is an example from last week.

4:15 am Get up.

4:30 am Go into attic to work on NG attic fan.

5:00 am Climb out of attic, fan is about ½ way wired.

5:15 am Eat, change clothes, shave and go to the bathroom.

6:00 am Drive to work.

7:00 am Start work.

4:30 pm Get off work.

5:40 pm Arrive at home.

5:50 pm Get some food and a fused switch for the fan.

7:00 pm Arrive at home, and go back into attic to work on fan.

7:30 pm Nearly complete wiring fan, only to find out the box I was going to tap off is not the right one, give up on the fan for tonight.

7:40 pm Try to relax for a few minutes.

8:00 pm Shower, and clean up the mess in the house.

9:30 pm Go to bed, ready to battle with the house this weekend.



Did I say that I hate working on my house?



That is the thing with a project home, especially one that has not had any maintaince for 20+ years. It sucks up all of your time and all of your money. Our next home will be completely different.

 

[daveshoe]

Do not let your emotions rule this

You are scaring me a little bit with the words 'Quick estimate'' on the foundation repairs. Have a foundation company come in and give you a firm quote on this. If you want to make a offer on this place, make it contingent on getting quotes on this work as well as a general inspection on the place. you do not want to find out that some of your out of level floors are due to termites or post beetles as well as a bad foundation. Go up into the attic and really look at the structure up there . Evidence of structure rot is very expensive . Rent a rotating laser and establish a baseline of the average grade condition of how out of level the floors are in this house. a variation of much more than an inch or so in each room will present challenges --especially in rooms like kitchens and baths that need cabinets installed. You do not want to have to level floors up by shimming them-- it will drive you crazy. Ask your foundation guy about this. Anything approaching three inches and you need to know it this baby is still moving its grade and WHY.

There is always the possibility of the place going downhill and getting you trapped in an upside down mortgage.

If you can still justify the purchase after really asking the pro's in your area instead of us guys , then go for it! Just do not let the house make your dream shop[effectively] cost 70 grand . If you are going to tear this place down later , figure that into your true cost as well. We used to burn down old farmhouses for fire department practice, but they must be stripped of asphalt roofing and such because of EPA rules--adding to expense

An alternative would be to construct your dream shop with living quarters of a nature that could be used as ''more shop'' later, and building a small house later that is designed to permit expansion. Of course all of this stuff depends on your family situation and your wife and kids having a sense of adventure . My biggest fear for you is that when you buy a ''cheap '' place like this is that you may not be able to get enough financing on it to later fix it up==because the bank will not give you a high enough appraisal to loan you this money

My business is buying distressed properties and fixing them, so take it for what it is worth.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

My emotions are ruling this = not good.



The place sounds like it could be a money pit... In my price range - I can't afford anything that doesn't need some work.



Sounds like slab-built houses are a bummer. I found a 34 year old ranch in the same town that might be built on a slab...



Kevin's right - I would be spending most of my time in the garage... but the purchase price includes the house. Maybe I can convince the big bank that foreclosed on it to knock the house down and reduce the asking price... and/or put up a new place in the same spot for more than the original asking price.



Looking for houses is a PITA...



It will be just me living in the place - so I don't need a big house at all.



Excellent advice - I knew I'd get lots of it from ya'all...



Check out the garage, though - ain't it purty?



Matt

 

[Jeff Clark]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset



Sounds like slab-built houses are a bummer.

Depends on the area. I'd say 99. 9%of new construction around here is slab. Very few new homes are pier and beam. My house now is pier and beam and I hate it cause I get all those critters getting up under the house. My new home will be slab.



You have to consider then cost of the home plus the cost of repairs versus it's completed value. If you spend, say $50,000 for the property and then spend another $100,000 to get it liveable condition, but the finished value is only $100,000, is it worth it? How long will it take for propery values to rise so that you get your money back? Just some things to think about. I went through some of this with the house I'm in now. It is a 20 year old log home that was not well built in t he first place. I have considered a full remodel at a cost of around 100K or tearing it down and starting over at a cost of around 350K. Either way I don't get much return if I sell it. Instead I'm selling it and building elsewhere.



BTW, Matt if you want to move to Texas, it's a 2400 sqft two story log home with an 1800 sqft (30x60) shop on two wooded acres with a creek.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I'm definitely not used to slabs at all. 99% of all homes where I'm from (Mass. ) have poured foundations and basement floors. I'm not used to the idea of slabs... or even crawlspaces.



They have the property listed right around $109k - I'm not sure how much I could talk them down, though. Its in a county that doesn't easily provide tax information online... which is a bummer.



Appreciation is important to me... although the stuff that will appreciate more quickly is out of my price range or doesn't have enough room or a big enough garage.



2400ft² is pretty big (and too pricey) for just me... but that shop sounds SWEET!!



Matt

 

[dresslered]

They have the property listed right around $109k

Put your money into the lot that you want. You can always improve on the home and/or outbuildings, but can never improve on the lot size/location. Also, always buy a little more than you can afford--later, you won't regret it as the values appreciate. I can't even imagine trading homes now with a comparable because the new property taxes would kill me.



I can show you an 8000 square foot bare lot (on a busy road) in my old neighborhood (so-so) that just sold for $499,000! Gotta get out of this state.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Keep in mind the winter heating bills Matt. They can be VERRRRRRRRRRRY high in old un- or under-insulated homes. I know people who pay $1500 a month to heat their late 1800's home here in Michigan.

 

[daveshoe]

Thanks for telling us more

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

My emotions are ruling this = not good.



The place sounds like it could be a money pit... In my price range - I can't afford anything that doesn't need some work.



Sounds like slab-built houses are a bummer. I found a 34 year old ranch in the same town that might be built on a slab...



Kevin's right - I would be spending most of my time in the garage... but the purchase price includes the house. Maybe I can convince the big bank that foreclosed on it to knock the house down and reduce the asking price... and/or put up a new place in the same spot for more than the original asking price.



Looking for houses is a PITA...



It will be just me living in the place - so I don't need a big house at all.



Excellent advice - I knew I'd get lots of it from ya'all...



Check out the garage, though - ain't it purty?



Matt

I kind of hated to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but since you told us a little more about your situation ,I have some more thoughts I would like to share.

1. Just because the house is foreclosed, does not make it a deal. What can make it a deal is for the bank to give you a very low interest rate ; it is a winner for them because they take it off the bad loan portfolio. I did this recently and in effect got a ''lower price'' for the house. . Banks will not cut their price to less than they have owed on the previous mortgage. They just won't -- it makes their balance sheet look too bad. They will even hold on to a turd to avoid this . see #1 above. 3. We cannot evaluate what a Good deal is --we do not live where you do and do not know what housing costs. The only person who can really tell what is a good deal is you. However , a real estate agent can show you comparable sales to give you an idea of what is available. 4. Other places to look for deals are sheriffs sales. go to the county sheriff and get the list in your area. If one strikes your fancy rest assured that it will not have much competition bidding the price up. Most people at sheriff's sales are pros and come to them to get a deal. Besides that ,you may get to witness an emotional buyer or two and determine that is not how you want to act when you buy your house. Discipline yourself to attend one of these sales to see how the process works == it is well worth the education that taking two hours off work will cost. When you are finally ready to bid on a place,do your homework and find out who owns the mortgage on it. Chances are it is a bank and you can get a good deal on financing with them. I did this last year and the bank waived the down payment with the sheriff and the deal was done. Took less than a minute to buy that house. 5. Know the zoning laws before you buy a place and then find out that you cannot put your garage there. 6. Know yourself and what you want in a house or a shop. Perhaps you could find a really nice shop in the country that you could put in living quarters[beware of zoning] I have known people to build a barn, put a trailer or bare bones living quarters inside it to live for a while and then build a small house. Done cheaply ,this may not cost you any more than rent and will get you started building equity in the place. 7. Do not give up =just make sure any deal makes good business sense and also that you can sell out of it if you have to move later. 8. Location. Do your best to determine if the area you are looking in is in decline , stable or rising. If it is in town, be sure to show up there on a Saturday night and walk around the whole neighborhood until the wee hours. talk to the cops about the area and get crime stats. [you may have to explain to them what you are there for anyway ,when you do your wee hours walk]. look at the age and condition of the cars parked on the street-- very revealing.

And by the way ,Matt, Where the heck is the driveway to those nice overhead doors?

 

[JLEONARD]

Matt,

I own and live in a house built in 1906 with a field stone fountation. I've lived there 20 years and it's great, but an old house is a lot of work.

It's been insulated, vinyl sided (vinyl IS final), we've replaced all the windows so it's pretty energy efficient, but this has taken time and $$ to say the least.

The floors are jacked in places, and as previously said, they are anything but perfect. Yes that is part of the "charm" of an old home, but...

Just realize that a house of this age is pretty much constant work esp if you want to bring it up to modern standards.

And when it's time to sell you need to find the "right" person who wants to deal with those issues.

Good luck in your decision.

Jay

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Wow - the good advice continues to flow in.



Here's some more info:



This place is in a small town (~3500 people). There's lots of Ag stuff all around this town and even a fairly popular summer tourist lake. It is situated about 25 miles from Madison (~206,000 people) where I live now...



The road that would take me almost all the way to this place is currently undergoing a massive project... basically taking a 2-lane highway and making it into a divided 4-lane highway. I'm anticipating property values in this town to go up now that the commute to Madison will eventually be even easier. It could be a pipe dream... who knows.



I do have a buyer's agent - she's been really good at telling me about places and taking me to see them if I like the 'stats'.



I totally dig the idea of getting a cheaper interest rate... paying less interest is always a good thing... the monthly payment is less and the overall cost during the life of the loan can be significantly less.



I'm down with the idea of getting a plot of land with a shop or putting up a shop... and trying to live in it. I haven't looked into construction loans, though. They might not be as 'easy' as a regular old mortage for a first-time buyer like me.



This place has newer sheetrock all around... I'd hate to think that they didn't stuff any fiberglass in the walls while they were in there. Steve makes a good point, though... heat is expensive. Luckily, I don't have to worry about anyone else complaining about how cold I like to keep my place.



Dave - what's your schedule like? How'd you like to come to WI for a day? haha You certainly know your stuff when it comes to this sort of thing and I appreciate you sharing this with me.



The driveway was gravel up to the garage... but the rest of it was asphalt down to the sidewalk.



I wonder if I could get a mortgage for a commercial property... hrmmm... I've found some pretty decent stuff doing searches on the MLS...



Again - thanks to all for the wealth of advice and so forth.



If only there was a way to ditch the house and put up a new one all under the same mortgage... there might be a way - but I'm clueless when it comes to financing.



Matt

 

[BarryG]

Nothing wrong with vintage houses that need work as long as you know what you are getting into. What may appear to be good on paper turns out to be a bad idea. Make sure and have the place inspected thoroughly. Previous posters have made excellent points. We lived in a 1873 house. It had no real structural problems. The electrical, plumbing and hvac had all been updated. The house had character and was all in all a great house. However whenever I went to fix something that would seem minimal it would almost always turn out to be a bigger deal, take twice as long to do at twice the price. I could list tons of projects or repairs that turned out that way. Definitely on the upside for our house was the appreciation you mentioned it turned out to be very well worth it for us but that will certainly depend on location, market and the future.

 

[BV]

Buy it - Move into the Shop - Burn the house and take the insurance money for BOMB's - j/k



Lots of good advise above and like BarryG - I grew up in a house that went on the tax records in 1904 so it was build in the late 1890's. Dad and Mom spend a lot of time & money updating the electrical, heating, plumbing and insulation but they also bought the house for $14k and sold for $240k and it just recently sold again for $497. 5k and still had the original hardwood floors.

 

[MFalkinham]

It will be just me living in the place - so I don't need a big house at all.

Matt, you might want to consider that maybe a Mrs. Matt might come along someday? Not to mention all of the little Matts that might then follow. More people end up selling a house because it has become too small, rather than too big... ...



Now, aren't you glad you didn't buy a 3rd Gen and get locked into "house-sized" truck payments???



Come on up to Dodge County! The commute is easy down to the PRM (People's Republic of Madison), and the cost of living is lower up here.



- Mike

 

[MKoth]

My Dad used to remodel houses and resell them, so I have a little experince with this kinda thing.



Any work that you do to improve the resaleability of the house will pay for itself when/if you chose to sell it.



The whole basment thing isn't complicated, just hard work. All you need is a dozen 40 ton bottle jacks and a lot of time.



Heck, I would even take a long weekend and come up and help.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Even more good advice and an offer to help me out - simply awesome. Thanks guys!



I currently live/work on the snobby west side of MSN - so the commute is a big consideration. I don't want to fight traffic on the 'beltline' everyday.



Having a big house is cool... but I don't want to pay to heat the sonofagun.



The place just got listed on the MLS... she's probably bound to sell now.



"A home with possibilities! This 2 br needs some TLC and is being sold "As Is". Good sized rooms. LR has an additional 8x12 area perfect for TV viewing, etc. The 3-season porch needs some finishing. Huge, newer garage would make good workshop or provide plenty of storage. Convenient location close to school and downtown shopping. "



Say I went out and got the jacks... . What about the foundation? Or will I just end up with all sorts of poles in the basement? There's already quite a few down there...



Thanks again, guys...



Matt



On edit: The 3rd Gen loan I applied for would have been more money (over 4 years) than the principle/interest on this place.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Oh - I forgot to add what I found out as far as tax assessments on this place... this is the '03 assessment:



Land value = $24,200

Improvements = $73,100



The assessment has been the same since 2002 - that's as far back as I could find it online... the '04 assessment wasn't available.



They're asking ~$110k for it... what do ya'all think?



Matt

 

[MKoth]

You could use a couple steel "I" beams to level and strenghten the floor. The house can also rest on these while the foundation is being repaired and the basment dug out.



This would be a great excuse to rent/borrow some heavy equipment!

 

[RottnDogue]

OK for this project I need to know how far are you from CT and will there be beer?