Drive line vibration

[D. Brown]

I have a 07 ctd 5. 9L,4x4,3500, auto trans. with 3200mi. I recently had a vibration problem starting from a complete stop. Dealer shimed the drive line and problem subsided. However, as soon as I towed my 27' fifth wheel problem reoccurs at take off and goes away. Is anyone experiencing same problem and if so what was the remedy? Right now the dealer says he over shimmed and needs to reshim. Dealer says when load is placed in back of truck the angle changes. I'm no mechanic but if the drive line were balanced and properly installed I wouldn't have a problem regardless of the load.

 

[wsmith1]

I also tow heavy loads, and have had the "shim" thing done several times, and it always comes back... ... also the U-joints need to be checked..... mine have gone several times also... ... .

 

[Hoefler]

I am going through the same thing right now. Dealer has replaced the drive shaft with no improvement. Waiting for the proper shims to come in from DC. I am thinking the transmission might be the problem, mine shudders with varying loads from empty to heavily loaded. Also having some shifting issues in 1st and 2nd now I have developed a leak at the front seal. Dealer is looking into a transmission replacement right now. My truck is a regular cab and has a single drive shaft. I have 37,000 miles on it now and this has been going on for over 10,000 miles.

 

[wsmith1]

I hear that!!!! my 2004. 5 needs the "shim" job again, and I have also had shifting problems with the 6 speed... ... . I will probably rethink before buying another dodge... ... . too many things have gone wrong with this one, leaving me stranded up to 5 days at a time on the road... ..... sad thing is that most dealers don't even carry the replacement parts. of course, other brands probably don't either... ... .

 

[D. Brown]

Thanx for all the replies. Looks like the dealer will shim the drive line to eliminate shudder but can't do anything about it when the truck is hooked up to the fifth wheel. Dealer says he'll replace the drive line, if needed, if I have any problems under warranty. Maybe I should have bought a Duramax!

 

[JApol]

I had my rear drive shaft balanced at a machine shop today for $50. The initial readings were ~. 15 inches and they got them down to ~. 02. My truck is now VERY smooth compared to before the balance.

 

[D. Brown]

Thanx JApol. I wondered why the dealer has never mentioned checking the balance of the two piece drive line. I will probably go to a specialty shop and get an oppion.

 

[2-ND TIME]

Drive line vib

By chance did the shops look at the crown and pinion? The one in Abbotsford along side the hiway looked at mine and they chipped the leading edge of the pinion which causes it to bounce badly. It was hard to see and needed a good light to see it. #@$%!

 

[JJuday]

I had the same problem with my 03'. The local dodge dealer was too incompotent to be working on my truck and just flat out wanted too much for the shims so I had my Dad make some shims at different thicknesses out of tool steel and that has so far solved the problem. I also had to replace the u-joints and the carrier bearing at 32,000 miles, the same time all of this shuttering started to happen.

 

[JFlagg]

I think for most people its the carrier bearing making all the problems. If I had one I'd just have a one piece made and get rid of the carrier bearing all together. The more pieces you have, the more unreliable and harder to maintain something. Cut down on parts and you cut down on headaches... Also, the less U-joints you'll need and it will probably balance alot better too.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

From my experience after having a GV installed that required a shorter shaft which they had made up. I had a rumble and I jacked up one rear wheel (mine is a 2 wheel) and rotated the shaft with a dial indicator set up at first one end then the other, results were very bad. I don't go back to people that do not know what they are doing (the shop that made up the shaft) so I went to a place that a friend recommended that had lots of experience with shafts in RV's and they said it would be best to order in a heavier shaft (too light a shaft will bend in the middle and whip) and they would balance it after they had the U-Joints in it. I said OK and have had no problems since then. I do know that not having the same angle or very near the same angle at both front and rear U-Joints can cause a problem. One cancels the other one out. This can sometimes be achieved with wedge shaped shims between the axle and springs (rear). U-Joints must be in good shape. If only one needle bearing is missing there will be trouble in short order. I had the greaseable kind put in and I grease them myself every 10K when I hit all the other grease fittings. The old saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is good to go by when maintaining any vehicle. I know this is basic stuff but for you gentlemen that are new to maintaining your trucks it is good to know. I have had nothing but bad experience at Dealers and always go elsewhere warranty or no warranty

 

[betterthanstock]

I think for most people its the carrier bearing making all the problems. If I had one I'd just have a one piece made and get rid of the carrier bearing all together. The more pieces you have, the more unreliable and harder to maintain something. Cut down on parts and you cut down on headaches... Also, the less U-joints you'll need and it will probably balance alot better too.

Be careful with going to one piece shafts. There is a speed called critical speed, at which point the natural vibration of the shaft (hit it with a rubber mallet to hear/feel it) matches the RPM, and the shaft goes BOOM. (whips in the middle, and literally explodes, sometimes damaging the transmission or diff bearings also). The longer the shaft, the lower that speed will be. That's why if you want a longer shaft you need a much larger diameter and lighter material (aluminum, carbon fiber, etc).

The joint in the middle lets you use smaller diameter, shorter shafts.

 

[JFlagg]

Thats good to know, luckily I have a QCSB 02, so I have a fairly short driveshaft and have had no problems. Other than the rear U-joint going out at about 100K... . seems like the 3rd Gen 2 piece shafts are less reliable than the 2nd Gen shafts to me.

 

[sag2]

I must have missed this thread when it started, but reading it now makes me crazy. Launch shudder (shudder from a stop to 5-8 mph) has absolutely nothing to do with the drive shaft, drive shaft balance, or U-joints. Changing any of the parts above is a waste of your time and DC's money, and just shows you the technician working on your truck is not qualified to repair it. It is totally related to drive line angle, and is most evident in trucks with two piece shafts. It may be present empty or loaded, and is noticed when either empty or loaded, but never both. There is an old TSB that covers trucks up through about 2004, but it still applies through 2007. The theory is exactly the same then as now, and I suspect into the future. The reason we never felt it in "old" trucks was because the suspension was so stiff it did not change the angles enough to matter. The down side was the truck beat your kidneys to death driving down the road. As I get older I think I like the occasional shudder way more than the lousy ride.

With the softer suspension and longer spring travel it is difficult to keep it away at both empty and loaded ride heights. As most people use their trucks most of the time empty, or most of the time loaded, it is just an annoyance if it occurs occasionally. The best way to eliminate it loaded is to install air bags to keep the ride height closer to the unloaded height. The advantage is you can deflate the bags when unloaded, and you get even a better ride than stock.

OK, I feel better now.

 

[Cattletrkr]

I must have missed this thread when it started, but reading it now makes me crazy. Launch shudder (shudder from a stop to 5-8 mph) has absolutely nothing to do with the drive shaft, drive shaft balance, or U-joints. Changing any of the parts above is a waste of your time and DC's money, and just shows you the technician working on your truck is not qualified to repair it. It is totally related to drive line angle, and is most evident in trucks with two piece shafts.

Wow! That's a pretty fine load of crap you got goin' on there. I joined TDR to hunt down the source of my launch shudder. After many thousands of miles and numerous trips to "correct" the driveline angle, my carrier bearing, center u-joint and rear u-joint all went at the same time. Turns out I had an improperly assembled center joint from the factory in the truck for the first 55K. Minimal shudder since... and the same ujoints btw.

Go ahead and try the angle, it's worked for a lot of trucks. But don't rule out anything that's been mentioned above. There are a lot of guys here who have had their launch shudder cured by changing u-joints, balancing shafts, or whatever.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

You might want to consider replacing the U joints with CV joints, then angles won't be a big problem. Lots of work and expense but a good last resort.

 

[Fulmek]

shudder

i have a 06 quad cab 3500 4wd dually, it shuddered from day one. i took it back to the dealer and of course he said it was normal so i went home and looked at the drive shaft it wasnt straight so i got a hand full of body washers and started shimming the hanger bearing. a little over a half inch down cured it when empty. but it still does it when i tow my 36 ft fifth wheel. should i go further or live with it ? thanks for any input.

 

[ACamilli]

My 06 4x4 auto 3:73 8' bed dually did same thing for the first few thousand miles or so. I don't know when it stopped exactly cause it went away so gradually. It didn't, as they call it, "shudder on launch" when I towed my 15,000 rv. Anyway i guess something eventually wore in or self adjusted because now at 25,000 miles it pulls out smooth as a Cadillac. Nothing was ever done to correct it, no shims, no nothing. It's gone.