Drove a Ford 6.4 and a Dodge 6.7 today

[Wolfy]

Huh?

My memory was the 2nd thing to go.

How can you remember that something else went first?



(... or is there someone else telling you that?) :-laf

 

[Tinman]

I think the new Dodge chassis cabs are gonna eat Ford alive in the commercial markets. I bet there are a lot of fleets out there that are tired of all the problems with the 6. 0 450s and 550s and are gonna jump ship. Sounds like Dodge/Cummins has done a good job with the 6. 7. Now that there is real competitor to the large Ford trucks, I guessing some folks aren't gonna go with the 6. 4 and "hope" Ford has fixed their diesels. I have, in the last few years, seen a lot more 3/4 and 1 ton Cummins in my area.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

First impressions of the Dodge



Looks the same (duuh). If you don't get the fugly "painted wood" dash crap, it's nice looking inside as well. Simple, yet effective.



Motor is freakishly quite. No "diesel" noise. And you have to listen very hard and press on that throttle really hard to get any turbo whistle.



Ride is fabulous! No squeaks, no jarring. Had the truck up to 80mph and in the city.



Trans shifts smooth and firm when required! Tho, I don't recall ever getting into "6th". The torque converter lockup that happens in my buddies new 06 doesn't show. it just shifts and goes.



Motor warm up. The motor defiantly de-fuels a lot until she's all comfy and warmed up. Once we got in the city there is ZERO turbo lag. Hit the accelerator and GO!



The exhaust break is just wild. No high idle to keep warm, the truck just engages the exhaust break for you! The only odd ball sound you get is the break. that's it.



Exhaust pipe. sounds like blowing though a straw, ZERO noise.



Exhaust smell. What smell?



Acceleration, Slower, once moving it I think a 4 speed auto in an 06 would walk the 6. 7 based on the seat of the pants 1/4 drag calculator.



Sales man: He was learning from me and my friend as he admitted he knew little and only done a few training courses on the new truck. He was honest and not a BullPooper. I like that big time (Denny Hecker dodge off of i-35W sound of 694 in MSP)





First impressions of the Ford



Luxury. heh. for 55,000 I was shocked I didn't have a capachino nozzel on the dash for my morning coffee! We all know the Fords are over priced.



Motor. for being common rail, sounds a lot like a quieter 6. 0. Still sounds like a bucket of bolts in the 17 degree morning. It did however start and not stall on the first try. So apparently they are improving the PowerStroke.



Ride. It's a ford. it rides like CRAP! Not as bad as the last generation with the 6. 0's. Pot holes still sent the suspension flopping around on the highway.



Trans kept the motor in the higher RPM's. I couldn't get the motor to run past 3200rpm. Tho the sales man never let us go very far and we never warmed it up. BTW. we took the dodge down 35W, around U of M and back. good long ride!



Boost gauge on the dash showed about 30psi. No coolant squirting out under the hood! More improvements!



No exhaust break. But I still think it's neat they have the AUX switches and built in trailer brake.



Exhaust, STINKY TRUCK! wow does it stink. I'd rather be in the same room as my cat after it filled up it's litter box.



Exhaust sound, loud compared to the 6. 7. No flames I didn't bring hot dogs anyways. No loss



acceleration, I'd like to see the 6. 7 and the 6. 4 heads up some day.



Steering wheel. it's like 10 turns lock to lock. What's up with that? Still has crap for turning radius



Sales man: Freaking idiot. "This motor is bullet proof, best one in the industry!" This motor has no experience yet, the Cummins 6. 7 has been in production in the dodge Chassis cab for 8+ month and who know how long in Europe in other applications, I tell the sales man.



This motor already has an issue with flaming tail pipes! He was unaware of any issues. I told him every dealer in the country had to halt sales until a computer reflash was done not to long ago.



There was more, but his accent and the loud idling 6. 4 it was hard to talk.



The Dodge truck is just NICE. I'd actually consider this 6. 7 and 6 speed auto. I've been a manual fan my entire life, and for a truck, this would do.



The Ford. Bleh, Yuppies? sure.

Wow - its great to see a non-biased post on brands for once. Obviously this fool isn't considering buying anything else but Dodge so why even go and flog someone else's vehicle? I guess just to make up reasons why he chose his respective product.



I own an 04 6. 0L, an 05 5. 9L and an 07 6. 6L (among others such as a 96 Cummins, 99 7. 3L Ford, and various older diesels). Needles to say I'm not too biased either way, but do have a good sense of each truck's strengths and weaknesses. I believe I have a right to critisize each brand as I own a few of each. Note: all of my trucks have the basic mods of exhaust, intake, and programmer. My Ford has some minor engine and transmission mods, due to the very hot program its running. essentially a TQ conv. , clutch plates, and headstuds to hold the heavy boost. The Dodge has a 65 HP chip (good for pulling) and no engine/transmission mods. The Chev has EFI live, 4" and AFE, no other mods yet as she's still quite new.



I can't comment too much on the new 07. 5+ motors since I don't own one, but I have test drove each one. The new Dodge transmission is a MAJOR improvement over the old one. The new 6. 4 will edge out a new 6. 7 powerwise, but not by much. The Ford overall is a more refined ride, handling isn't as tight but smoother than the Dodges. The exhuast brake on the Dodge is excellent, this could be a major deciding factor in my next purchase this fall (this and the updated transmission - much needed). The GMs are essentially the same as the 07s back, same ride, engine's basically the same, overall a sold truck if only without the IFS front end and low ride height. I'd say the GM has the most seat of the pants power right now. Interior is a preferential thing, but for me the Ford has them all beat. Exterior is subjective as well, but Ford's got it in my eyes. Easy guys, just my opinion. Overall its a toss-up between the Dodge and the Ford for a new truck in fall. The GMs are essentially the same only with emission crap on it, not enough of a difference for me to upgrade (I love my 07). I think I'd put it this way, if it was a truck for me (I'm an owner of an oilfiled reclamation/construction business), I'd go for the Ford. If it was more for work or a crew, the Dodge would be the ticket.



As for the 07-earlier truks that I own, my fav truck is the Ford. The engine has been killer, great power no probs whatsoever. The GM would be second, mind you I HATE the front suspension. Engine and transmission are great. Excellent reliability. Both trannies are excellent, the Allison edging out the Torqshift due to 6 speeds on the gear shifter in M. Sad to say but my 05 Dodge has given me the most grief of the bunch. Small engine glitches such stumbling at acceleration and an interior that seems to be shaking apart faster than my other trucks are definate minuses for the truck in my book. Granted, I could have gotten a lemon, as I've heard good things about these trucks (mind you it could be same guys such as the poster above with his "review"). A major thing about these years is the very old-school transmission. This thing revs my engine longer than it should when towing, and seems to be seaching for gears constantly. Isn't in the same league as the Allison or Torqshift. I'm really happy they updated the transmission on the new trucks. Another thing is it is much louder in the cab on side roads than the other two. Rocks are heard loud and clear, the others are not.



Granted, if I was heavy into the mods I'd probably go with the Cummins, since it no doubt is built better structurally than the Ford and even a little better than the Chev. However, since I only do basic mods essentially I'm comparing against stock-type trucks. And I do understand that there is no program that would blow the Cummins heads, but lets not even open that can of worms - these engines were not built for the really high HP. The above comarison is for stock trucks essentially.



Now boys, I know I'm gonna hear about all the probs the 6. 0L had and so on, but mine has been excellent. My 99 7. 3L is also a killer engine, it has 370,000kms and I just gave it to my nephew who just turned sixteen, so obviously life isn't getting any easier for it (its lifted and been chipped since day one)! Doesn't use a drop of oil. The other 7. 3s are essentially work trucks, and have been 100% trouble free except replacing the troubled air filter in the 99s up. My 96 P-pump Cummins has just under 320,000kms, no engine probs at all! Uses 1. 5L of oil every oil change. Excellent in this respect but I've done the front end numerous times (once in the 99 Ford), and had some little "bugs" creeping up lately like light switch, airbag computer, etc. Mostly little stuff. Keep in mind that I do drive my trucks quite hard offroad and so on, but I do two things that I feel keep all my vehicles in top shape: 1. Warm up engine before driving EVERY TIME, and 2. Very strict maintenance schedule. Anything that breaks or is worn out always gets fixed immediately, too. Stick to these rules I feel any truck will last long-term, be it Cummins, Duramax, or even the dreaded 6. 0L!!!



So I suppose 08 and up has rewritten the rules on these trucks and when my fleet is updated again I can give another comparison as I see them. It just irks me when a guy cannot grasp that the competition may have some aspects of the truck that are better than his. But I guess thats why its on the internet. Sorry to say, but your Dodge may not be the end-all be-all of trucks, I'm sure its gonna be a sweet ride, but its pretty stupid to think the Fords are as bad as you make them out to be (gee I wonder how I'm gonna take that diesel exhaust smell outta the Ford!). If this is true then they'd have a much greater percent of market share, instead of being second/third in overall sales of diesel trucks (Ford being a strong first and Chev/GM essentially trading places with Dodge) Mind you this is on a Cummins forum, so I expect there's gonna be a little bias!!!!



I'll put on my flame suit for discussing in a positive note other brands than Dodge and Cummins. I deserve to go to hell for this.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

Also, gotta add that the steering on the Dodge is better than the Ford turn to turn, and overall feel (much better than the older style Dodges). As for engine noise, call me oldskool because I like diesel rattle! So to me it really doesn't matter. The Fords are louder however, but they are all pretty quiet these days.



One last thing, the cold-starting capabilities on the new Piezo injectors are supposed to be superior of any other type, due to the crystals not expanding/contracting with temp. I understand these 6. 4s will start much colder than the engine should actually take without all the smoke and noise at start-up. So I'm not so sure about your "bucket of bolts" thing Jason. I started one up in -20C, it sounded not much different than when warmed up. Altough I actually let the trucks warm up for 15 min before test driving it since someone will eventually buy this truck...

 

[JasonCzerak]

I drove one truck, I drove another. I compared my likes and dislikes just like you.

You options are no more fact then mine. The Dodge is not my first truck, won't be my last.

At my previous job, I took the Chevy for a week, I took the dodge for a week and I took the ford for a week back in 04'. I've also used the same trucks on the job doing, real truck work as well. I picked the Dodge. Sorry, I can't own 6 trucks!

It's not my problem that the sales man doesn't give a rats butt about the "break in" or "warm up" of the trucks. I'm know at least one other person test drove my truck prior to my purchase of it, IT'S FINE! . The sale guy started up the 6. 7, tossed it in reverse, flew up to the front of the dealership at about 30 mph. He didn't care either. The ford salesman, I think the "loop" was only 3 miles long as it only took less then 15 minutes with a drive change 1/2 way though. That's all we got.

As far as bucket of bolts, It sounds like a bucket of bolts compared to the 6. 7. it's about as loud as my 04. 5 idling. it sounds like a v-8 diesel.

And if you look at a manual, 15 minute idle up in -20 degrees is a BAD thing. apparently.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

I guess everyone's gotta different opinion on proper operation of a diesel. The Fords go into high idle much like the Dodges when cold, so its not a big deal to idle them (I know what you mean about the manuals!). All they're concerned about is EGR clog-up when idling (which is colsed at idle anyways).



And my dealership also did not feel a proper warm-up was required, but I waited on it anyways out of respect of the future owner. If you don't feel the same thats fine, its just my own opinion.



On the subject of break-in, i just gotta say that I used to be one those guys that drives it very softly off the bat, varying RPM, and leting the bearings seat and rings tighten up.



However, I started doing the opposite starting in 04 and driving them them very hard off the bat. note: this does NOT include cold starts and drives, I always let them warm up, most importantly on initial break-in. I bought the 6. 0L and hooked up to a (roughly) 9,000lb load, and drove it 8 hours to a job up and down the RPM between 95 km'h and 135 km/h. Very little idling off the bat, only to warm up, and always drove it very hard. Same with the Dodge when i had 34 kms on it it was hooked up to about 7000lbs and drove for 7 hours much the same way. I should add that it was driven hard for about an hour at a time, and idled for about 10min to ensure nothing was getting too hot on bearing surface. The GM didn't have the luxury of a heavy load available for break-in but I drove it as hard as I could for the first 4000-5000 kms. I find this way of break-in produces better MPG over time, tightens the rings much faster and better, and makes for a more reliable truck over time. I really don't have proof right now but I'll get back to you in about a year and half when I'm over 300,000 on these trucks. Also, I break in all my tractors, quads, snowmobiles, even my garden tractor this way, and they have ended up using absolutely zero oil after some time.



There's always two schools of thought on break-in, I'm not really sure which is right actually, but i have good luck with this way! No bucket of bolts here.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

Looking at my post, i may give the impression that I take my test-drives like i do my break-in, hwich I DON'T. i drive them quite light, with a few runs of accel when test driving, just because I fell the future owner of the truck deserves to break it in the way he sees fit. I know I like to break mine i na certain way (and cold driving is NOT one of them).

 

[JasonCzerak]

You have to understand, the ppl on this site are of very auto-centric mind set. we are just a small percentage that have a tiny bit of understanding.



The large majority, don't care. It's a tool. So it's all good and honorable that you decided to take the time to warm up, but it's end all effect if you were not to purchase that exact truck is a waste of time to be honest.



Personally, I would of loved to get a car hauler and tow the S10 of my dad's back from purchasing my truck. it was a 300 mile trip back home, but unfortunately I could not get one on such short notice.

 

[Pourinthecoal]

Thats nice that you think its "good and honorable" but I surely don't mind taking 10 min to have a complimentary coffee while it warms. TO each his own, I'm done with this thread.