Archived Dry Park, Cannot turn Steering Wheel at stop

[jgibson]

2001HO,3/4, Camper package, tow package, 18K miles.



Been to the dealer 3 times about a problem they first said did not exist. Now Chrysler has a name for it "Dry Park". What is happening is at slow speeds and at stop the steering wheel CANNOT be turned.



They have changed out every PS part except the rack trying to fix the problem. No luck. I have driven similar new trucks from the dealers lot, that do not exibit the problem, the Dodge tech resolution team has told my dealer that even though the new trucks do not show this lack of boost "they will"!! This is a big problem as the steering simply will not work at a stop, and I must move to turn the wheel, no fun with a 21 foot truck in a parking lot.



Wierd things also happen with the brakes while empty. A clunk is heard and then I must almost double the peadle force to maintain the same ammount of breaking force. Many excuses from the dealer, they have told me that they are seeing more and more of this problem.



HELP

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

No help for your problem, but both my '97 and my current '99 have had this problem. The only thing I noticed is it gets worse with wider tires.

 

[LSMITH]

My 99 does the same thing according to my wife. I never turn the wheel unless I am moving, I guess I think it is hard on steering parts and I grew up with no power steering where you could not turn stopped so it is an old habit to start motion before even trying the wheel. It is a very common complaint on these trucks.

 

[Extreme1]

For the PS problem, mine started this occaisionally after sitting overnight when it's cold (below freezing) out. Does it help to raise the RPM? I takes care of mine. It's like a valve has to be forced open by pressure. Once it has popped off, it's fine.



As for the brake issue, does it happen under hard braking or normal? Rough road or smooth?



The two could be related, it sounds like the system pressure is low. An internal leak in the steering gear (the part you haven't had replaced yet) would do it. So would a defective pump. I'd try a new rack, then a pump.

 

[MidwestMotorman]

simple check

For steering pump or related troubles, you can jack up the front wheels and see if the steering improves. That means the pump could be weak. You might have a siezed ball joint in the front end causing lots of drag. You can check for that by pushing in on one of the front wheels to see how hard they turn. You should be able to turn them. Your steering gear could also be obstructed or improperly set up.



You can also greatly improve steering by running synthetic power steering fluid.



The dealers have a pressure gauge that bolts in to the system, and will show pressure/flow problems. Dealers that just guess and replace parts have a hard time correctly diagnosing and solving problems.

 

[jgibson]

Originally posted by ROADWARRIOR

No help for your problem, but both my '97 and my current '99 have had this problem. The only thing I noticed is it gets worse with wider tires.

Thanks... but the tires are stock and properly inflated.

 

[jgibson]

Good replys

Thanks for all the input. The dealer had my truck for 2 days driving around with the pressure guage on 9so they say), and could not find a pressure problem, either return or pres. side. Don't you think that the underlying problem is an under engineered pump??? If Dodge has named it in their tech resources as DRY PARK, this must mean others have complained. The poor breaking is usually only noticed on smooth surfaces, unloaded. It feels like a valve is opening/closing suddenly, and then you better be ready to really get on the pedal, this combined with the poor steering makes me not want to let my wife drive the truck!! I will try to get the front end off the ground this weekend and see the results.

 

[jgibson]

Originally posted by Extreme1

For the PS problem, mine started this occaisionally after sitting overnight when it's cold (below freezing) out. Does it help to raise the RPM? I takes care of mine. It's like a valve has to be forced open by pressure. Once it has popped off, it's fine.



As for the brake issue, does it happen under hard braking or normal? Rough road or smooth?



The two could be related, it sounds like the system pressure is low. An internal leak in the steering gear (the part you haven't had replaced yet) would do it. So would a defective pump. I'd try a new rack, then a pump.

RPM Changes all the way up to the rev limiter make absolutely zero change in the assist.

 

[Extreme1]

That's pointing towards the gear for the steering but what about the brakes?



Has the hydro boost unit been replaced?

 

[T Peterson]

Brakes...

My truck does this and I think the clunk is axle wrap and then the ABS takes over, senses a sudden slowing of the wheels, which is the axle wrap and bleeds pressure off the rear brakes. IMHO



Tom

 

[98rammer]

I just had this problem at my best friend's house the other day. It never did it before...

 

[fest3er]

I don't know if this is related, but I occasionally have something similar happen.

Turning into my driveway, there's a bit of a lip to climb over. When the front tires hit the lip, I suddnely cannot turn the wheel any further for a moment. The left tire hits first. I do have 4x4.

What is the likelihood that this 'Dry Park' problem is due to a valve inside the steering gear? I did notice that when the engine is running and the tires are parked on snow ont he concrete, the steering turns by itself to one side.

Can anyone explain exactly how the 'power' part of the steering works? The service manual show a valve body and a spool body. Could one of these be sticking, thus causing a loss of power assist? The SM says *nothing* about how the power assist works.

Fest3er

 

[jgibson]

Originally posted by Extreme1

That's pointing towards the gear for the steering but what about the brakes?



Has the hydro boost unit been replaced?

The dealer called Dodge to get approval to replace the Hydro Boost... ... Dodge said that since the truck is "Operating as designed" that they would NOT approve the replacement of the HB. Therefore the dealer would not replace it. Again they acknowledge that the steering is under assisted DRY PARK and that is what is frustrating.



A $40K truck that can't turn it's own front wheels in a parking lot.

A dealer that has said they have been told by Dodge that sooner or later ALL the trucks will exhibit this problem.

A Manufacturer that knows it's product has a problem.



AND no one willing to do anything to correct the problem.



ANY SUGGESTIONS????? What to do???

 

[98rammer]

i'm wondering if this problems is somewhat related to ford's problem with the hydroboost system; except that they usually have to hit the brakes to start their non-steering problems...

 

[Joe Mc]

jgibson,



Welcome to the TDR (5 posts and memeber since 5/02). What's your rig? I checked your profile and it's not there. If you can get it in place knowing what your rig is helps us help you.

Sorry to hear you are having problems especially with the steering/breaks.

I've recently read post about the blue cylinder attached to the m-cylinder - it's supposed to be charged with nitrogen gas to get (I think) you stoped if you loose power. I'm not sure but I recall that if the nitro is discharged you can have problems. Since the brake/steering systems are so closely linked it might be worth mentioning to the Technician. Try a search using "blue cylinder".

Also, I've other read posts (probably not longer than 4 months ago) mentioning replacement of the steering box. If anyone recalls this please send jgibson a link. Otherwise "j" you can try searching for "steering box".



When you search on the TDR you'll get a great deal of prior posts to scan. It can be tiresome, but sometimes there are "real specific" words you have to use at the dealer to get anything done under warranty, you probably won't find the words anywhere else. Unfortunately, acting on our real feelings and telling them to take their 40k piece of s_ _ t and stuff it, doesn't help it just closes the door. It's hard at times but keeping it cool usually produces better results. If all else fails try another dealer?



fFester3 mentioned that when his rig is on snow or wheels up in the air the steering turns by itself. I'm not sure our steering boxes are the same as the old (late 60 - 70s) ones and honestly haven't looked at the one on my truck to see, but I had the same problem with a 73 340 Duster. Upon purchase I noticed the power steering belt was off, as soon as I replaced it and started up a magical right turn happened. With all my might I couldn't turn the wheel with the engine on and had to take off the belt. Months afterward I found out that this was because the housing (where the two lines to from the pump enter the box) had been removed, replaced and not adjusted properly. What was needed was loosen the two bolts holding the housing to the box tap the housing to move it one way or the other, lift both wheels off the ground, center the wheel and start it up to see what happened. Tapping left or right on the housing with the engine on would adjust the flow to one side or the other in the box. It sounds weird but it worked on the old box - apparently inside theres a valve that moves based on which way the wheel is turned which diverts the high pressure to the side needing assist. As I first mentioned I'm not sure if the boxes on our trucks are the same.



One last thing about the TDR members - we have all had similar problems and learn as we go from other more knowledgable folks and if anyone has posted inproper information, not to worry, someone with the correct info will let everyone know. See what you can find in the search before trying anything and if you haven't done so yet look in the back of your owners manual, locate the section with the order form for a shop manual and get one ordered. It's well worth the $100, don't buy one from the dealer as you'll probably pay $250.

 

[jgibson]

Good info.

Thanks Joe MC for the good info.



I will try the search and I have put some info on my truck in my profile! Trying another dealer is a good suggestion, but I think with all the times my local dealer has had the truck and contacted Dodge's technical team that they will see Dodge says not turning the wheel is "operating as designed", but none the less I will take your advice.

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Joe Mc
... apparently inside theres a valve that moves based on which way the wheel is turned which diverts the high pressure to the side needing assist. ...

So what is the possibility that that valve is, perhaps, sticking and not supplying pressure to one side or the other?

I'll have to call Power Steering Specialist (in Westerville, OH, IIRC). I bought a re-man steering gear from them, and so far I've no problems with it. Whilst talking to them, they mentioned two possibilities. First, one *can* install a more powerful P/S pump. Second, one can drill out an orifice to increase the fluid flow through the system. I didn't do these as it was a couple hundred extra dollars I didn't *really* need to spend at the time. I'll also ask them about the 'Dry Park' problem.

Another thing I can think of is perhaps there is a spot of air trapped inside somewhere. It took quite a while to work the last of the air from my new gear. One small bubble was causing play in the steering.

Finally, if the valve *is* sticking, draining and switching to synthetic *might* clear that up. But it's pure conjecture.

Maybe, instead of sticking, there just isn't enough force available to move that valve. I'll check with PSS about all of them.

As to being unable to turn the wheel at all. I once drove a C-60 with a 12' box reefer, on which the P/S belt had failed and no one had bothered to replace it. Talk about *hard* to steer! But, even stopped, I could turn the wheel. Granted, I had to stand up and put my whole body into to it, but turn it did. (Now, add to that operating the clutch, brake and gas at the same time. I was young then, and much more coordinated!) Even my Ram, with the engine off, I can turn the wheel on dry pavement. JGibson, did you mean it was *real* hard to turn, or that it would not turn at all (as in locked or seized)?

Fest3er

 

[jgibson]

Not Impossible

OK it isn't impossible for ME to turn the wheel, yes... unbuckel the seat belt, both hands on the side you want to turn and give it all you got, I can then move the wheel little by little. The problem here is that my wife CANNOT turn the thing. Some foreward movement will allow a turn as this reduces the friction of the tire on the pavement. But by that time she has no chance at all of getting the thing headed where she needs! And I got to tell you that it is a supreeme pain when backing up my trailer or boat as this can require a lot of turning without any, or limited foreward or rearward motion.



As I said above the dealer said they drove my truck for 2 days with the pressure guage in place to see if anything was sticking or pressures were bad. They SAID they saw nothing, but were also presented with the wheel that would not move. There response... again Dodge says the thing is "operating as designed".



Thank you for your input and offers of more information!!!

 

[MidwestMotorman]

I think your truck is definitely NOT "operating as designed". You need to look around and find a dealership that has the balls to tell D-C something is definitely wrong. Find one with knowledgeable techs that do not need D-C to hold their hand.



Driving around with the steering pressure gauge on for two days will not help unless it is moved around to various locations on the steering system. Your pump will produce a certain pressure, and that will have no effect on helping you steer if your gear or line has a restriction or defect. I think the steering gears from the older ones are interchangeable. I would try lifting the front and see how things steer with no weight.



Seems kind of funny that the other millions of Rammers can still steer with one hand and you can't. Kinda hard to call that "normal". I am afraid that you are pretty much at a dead end with your current dealer, so try someone new. You might get the same song and dance elsewhere if they talk to D-C, so be ready. Be sure to tell them what has been replaced, but they can check by VIN. Your best bet is to find a service manager or tech that actually owns a Ram.

 

[MidwestMotorman]

Me again. Another member on the forum had made a comment that there were a couple different orifice sizes for coming out of the pump. He said that repeated power steering troubles were caused by the smaller orifice, and by putting in a larger orifice, the troubles were resolved. Credit goes to RichB59 for the info. He used to be a Dodge parts man.