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Duramax for the weekend

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I’ll be having a go at the new Duramax to this weekend. While my truck is down getting a new transmission, I’ll be using a buddy’s new 2003 crew cab dually to do the pullin chores. My bombing has finally taken its toll on the NV4500, so I’ve got a new one waiting on me at Standard Transmission in Fort Worth. I’m headed to a calf roping in Stephenville, Texas, and Standard Transmission in Fort Worth is only about 65 miles out of the way, so I Figure it’ll save me about 250 bucks shipping. I’m removing the NV 4500 tonight (I hope) and will take the core with us on Friday and will exchange for the upgraded one.



Anyway, we’ll be pulling 3 horses in a 3 horse Sooner with 13 foot full living quarters. I don’t know the weight, but would guess around 12,000 loaded. It’ll be a good comparison, though because we pull this trailer with our Dodges all the time. One is my truck (heavily bombed [see sig. Below]), the other a 2002 HO with Edge EZ. We get 11. 5 to 12. 5 mpg with the 2002, and about 10 to 11 with the 98 (the big injectors hurt the 98’s economy).



I’ll post my unbiased opinions, speeds, mpg, and all driving impressions next week. I’ll also let you know how my dealings with Standard Transmission and the transmission R&R go.
 
I am also waiting to hear your opinion. I had a 94 and 99 Dodge with CTD/AT and I think my Duramax/Allison pulls better.

The Chevy truck rides a lot better but it is definetly not as heavy duty as the Rams where.



MPG with the Duramax is a little more empty (+1 MPG) and a little less (-1MPG) towing a 12,000 fifth wheel.



I drove an 03 Dodge last week and if the new AT is worth a crap and DC pulls it's head out of it's @#$ and builds a real crew cab I would get another CTD Ram. Lots of improvement on the "feel" of the steering and handling.
 
Originally posted by MABurns

I drove an 03 Dodge last week and if the new AT is worth a crap and DC pulls it's head out of it's @#$ and builds a real crew cab I would get another CTD Ram. Lots of improvement on the "feel" of the steering and handling.



The chances of a real crew cab are virtually zero, and a fully electronic transmission is needed. The steering is nice, but they still did not address the lack of support for the steering sector shaft that I can see. The 03 is only very marginally better in the steering dept IMO. With no true cab I would not buy a new Dodge.
 
Just to add a little to this: I never thought I would go to the "dark side" but like most others, if ya want a true crew cab, it ain't gonna be a Dodge. And the dang Fords are so "old school" All I have done to my '03 GMC 3500 Dually crew cab is a box from Edge. The other day I was grossed at 21,000 and easily pulled a 3 mile long 6% grade at 70mph. If I stepped on it I could gain speed. That was with the box set on 2 out of 4. Not too mention my EGT didn't go higher than 1250, try doing that in my old ETH (see sig) Also this truck is much faster for acceleration, I relay that to very little turbo lag and the Allison. My Dodge had more power, but I had over 5 grand into compared to 800 bucks in the GMC. All in all, I still love the Cummins, but GM has really come along way from the old diesels
 
Interested

Ross,



I'm very interested in your findings and look forward to reading about your comparison. I also pull a horse trailer and although I am factory stock, I always like to know about better "mouse traps".

Dave
 
I am also going to watch this topic with interest. My D/C has many years left in it, barring an idiot crossing the center line, so I'm not planning a truck purchase. (My wife wants a PT Cruiser for her dogs. Can't figure that'n out. The dogs almost never do the driving. )



My experience at work with the 1993-1998 series Chevys (454 and 6. 5 diesel) has been truly evil. Chevy trucks will really have to prove themselves before I'd consider one.



By the way, if your Chevy strands you in Salmon, Idaho, Quality Motors is a great place for fast, friendly, and honest repair. I can say the same for Keil Chevy in Grass Valley, California. And if you need to have your Chevy hauled into town, the towing company in Nothing, AZ (a real place) is first rate. I know all by experience.
 
My last Chevy was a '93 6. 5 turbo diesel WHAT A PIECE OF JUNK! I switched to Dodge and swore I'd never go back! But, some of my friends have Duramax's, lately I've been hearing good things about them, and I personally witnessed a Duramax make ~430rwhp on a dyno, that was the same day my 400+rwhp Cummins only managed 377, danged hot and humid. Then I decided to get a "real" crew cab, one drive in the GMC and I was sold. We also just bought a new Yukon XL, I must say the little 5. 3 is one heck of a motor. Danged thing is just as fast as my old Suburban with a 454 and a Banks kit. GM really is coming along way. There's been some inside talk of the Duramax getting a Variable Geometry Turbo and some extra fueling to bring it up around 350hp and 600lb of torque. Naturally they'll tweek the Cummins to beat it, but Dodge needs to build a transmission for it first. Especially a slushbox if they want to compete. One thing about the power wars, as said before, no matter which brand we own, we all benefit!



Jerry
 
Back from Trip (LONG)

OK, here’s the report. We left New Mexico Thursday night (12/12/02) about 6:30 pm. Temperature approximately 42 degrees.



Truck: 4 door dually 2003 Duramax 4X2, 3. 73, Allison; 2,750 miles.

Trailer: Sooner 3 horse slant, 13 ft. living quarters, 2 horses (1,100 # ea. ); water, hay, & tack. Guestimated weight: 10,000 pounds loaded.



We drove to Sweetwater, Tx, (approx. 205 miles) the first night. Cruise control set at 70 mph. First impressions, first leg of trip: Truck accelerates to speed well. The truck did not hold set speed going up anything beyond rolling hills; downshifts and carries 4th gear to redline, then upshifts to 5th usually over crest of hill. I found this kind of surprising because when I first accelerated to speed, I thought, hey, this truck has some punch. When I climbed my first small/medium grade and it had to downshift, I thought, “this ain’t right, it oughtta climb this in 5th, no problem. ”



The ride was quiet and nice. The truck tracked very well. The seats were pretty good too. The best thing so far was the electric extension mirrors. The Sooner is 8’ wide, so being able to extend the mirrors (and then adjust them) from the driver’s seat was way cool and convenient. CD player skipped on every CD we had… This truck has dual climate controls; one for driver and one for passenger. Kind of neat also, but looks like something else to break that only the stealer can fix…



Next morning drove to Abilene TX, and filled up for the 1st time. Miles-310; Gallons- 30. 0; Mileage 1st tank: 10. 33. This mileage was a bit less than I expected. Owner said, “it’s not broke in yet. ” I said, “Yeah, ok. ”



After fill-up #1, we drove from Abilene to Stephenville and dropped horses & trailer. From Stephenville, we went to Ft. Worth to Standard Transmission to pick up my new NV-4500 for my Dodge. The 3500 Crew Cab dually’s ride was disappointing empty; much rougher than my Dodge 3500. After an awesome meal of Fajitas at Uncle Julio’s, we went back to Stephenville to rope in Saturday’s roping.



After two day’s worth of roping, we were ready to leave Sunday night, so we filled up. Miles-324; Gallons-26. 6; Mileage 2nd tank: 12. 18. Of these 324 miles, approximately 100 miles were towing, the other 220 miles were empty to/from Fort Worth, plus some running around. This mileage was somewhat disappointing. My Dodge would have done the same trip at 14-15 mpg.



Late Sunday night, we had driven from Stephenville to Big Spring Tx. Truck was loaded with trailer and horses, same as first leg of trip. Miles-222; Gallons- 23. 7; Mileage 3rd tank: 9. 37. Speed on this leg was between 68 and 75 mph. This mileage was disappointing. Owner (driver for this leg of trip) stated that it was “all those hills. ” If you’re familiar with I-20 West of Cisco TX to Big Spring, you know that there are some small hills, but not many. Only at Ranger and Baird are there any real pulls. The truck pulled these hills at about 52 mph, pedal mashed.



Upon arrival home, we topped off the final tank. Miles-177; Gallons- 16. 8; Mileage 4th tank: 10. 54. For this final leg, speed was reduced to 60-65 mph due to late night driving and some pretty bad New Mexico roads.



Summary: Comfort: The new truck is no doubt a comfortable ride, at least loaded. Empty she’s a bit rough. The room provided by the Crew Cab was a real delight. The fancy gadgets were fun and gimmicky, but I wonder about their longevity. Body: The sheet metal on the truck is very, very, flimsy. I don’t know if this matters, it just struck me as cheap. (Our Dodge’s aren’t all that great either in this department). Mileage: A bit of a disappointment. It is not as good as my Dodge, or my brother’s 2002 HO either. It looks like our similarly equipped Dodges (except for the Allison) get 1. 5 more mpg across the board, either loaded or unloaded. This may increase with break-in (the owner hopes so…). Power: Well, this is where it all matters, right? I was impressed with the acceleration with a load, but disappointed with the truck’s ability (should I say inability?) to hold speed, even up mild rolling hills. The Allison downshifts to find the right gear, but usually pulled fourth gear up to redline, then held rpm there until topping out over the hill. I missed my 6-banger’s ability to grunt up these same hills without ever shifting. I must admit that my dodge is heavily bombed, and my brother’s is mildly bombed (EZ only), but both our trucks pull this same trailer with the same load easier and with better mileage. It’s worth saying that when I tow in my Bombed 98, I keep the TST Powermax turned off, benefiting only from my DD Stage II injectors, and my PDR 35 turbo. Transmission: Generally, I’m not a automatic transmission fan, but this Allison is pretty cool. I believe the five closely meshed gears are the reason the Duramax feels so strong when accelerating. This transmission behind a Cummins would be unstoppable. (my opinion).



Apples to Apples? No. My truck and my brothers are bombed.

Chevy Bashing? I’m trying not to. If I had to have a Crew Cab, I’d consider one. It’s a nice ride; very comfortable.



Please don’t turn this information into a pi$$ing contest. I’m not trying to slam anyone’s personal choice. I actually enjoyed driving the truck, and it got the job done. We got there, and then we got home. I just wanted to share MY experience. If I had to have an automatic, and/or had to have a Crew Cab, I wouldn’t be afraid of owning one of these trucks. But, as for me and my house….
 
Re: Back from Trip (LONG)

Originally posted by Ross

OK, here’s the report. We left New Mexico Thursday night (12/12/02) about 6:30 pm. Temperature approximately 42 degrees.



Truck: 4 door dually 2003 Duramax 4X2, 3. 73, Allison; 2,750 miles.

Trailer: Sooner 3 horse slant, 13 ft. living quarters, 2 horses (1,100 # ea. ); water, hay, & tack. Guestimated weight: 10,000 pounds loaded.



We drove to Sweetwater, Tx, (approx. 205 miles) the first night. Cruise control set at 70 mph. First impressions, first leg of trip: Truck accelerates to speed well. The truck did not hold set speed going up anything beyond rolling hills; downshifts and carries 4th gear to redline, then upshifts to 5th usually over crest of hill. I found this kind of surprising because when I first accelerated to speed, I thought, hey, this truck has some punch. When I climbed my first small/medium grade and it had to downshift, I thought, “this ain’t right, it oughtta climb this in 5th, no problem. ”



The ride was quiet and nice. The truck tracked very well. The seats were pretty good too. The best thing so far was the electric extension mirrors. The Sooner is 8’ wide, so being able to extend the mirrors (and then adjust them) from the driver’s seat was way cool and convenient. CD player skipped on every CD we had… This truck has dual climate controls; one for driver and one for passenger. Kind of neat also, but looks like something else to break that only the stealer can fix…



Next morning drove to Abilene TX, and filled up for the 1st time. Miles-310; Gallons- 30. 0; Mileage 1st tank: 10. 33. This mileage was a bit less than I expected. Owner said, “it’s not broke in yet. ” I said, “Yeah, ok. ”



After fill-up #1, we drove from Abilene to Stephenville and dropped horses & trailer. From Stephenville, we went to Ft. Worth to Standard Transmission to pick up my new NV-4500 for my Dodge. The 3500 Crew Cab dually’s ride was disappointing empty; much rougher than my Dodge 3500. After an awesome meal of Fajitas at Uncle Julio’s, we went back to Stephenville to rope in Saturday’s roping.



After two day’s worth of roping, we were ready to leave Sunday night, so we filled up. Miles-324; Gallons-26. 6; Mileage 2nd tank: 12. 18. Of these 324 miles, approximately 100 miles were towing, the other 220 miles were empty to/from Fort Worth, plus some running around. This mileage was somewhat disappointing. My Dodge would have done the same trip at 14-15 mpg.



Late Sunday night, we had driven from Stephenville to Big Spring Tx. Truck was loaded with trailer and horses, same as first leg of trip. Miles-222; Gallons- 23. 7; Mileage 3rd tank: 9. 37. Speed on this leg was between 68 and 75 mph. This mileage was disappointing. Owner (driver for this leg of trip) stated that it was “all those hills. ” If you’re familiar with I-20 West of Cisco TX to Big Spring, you know that there are some small hills, but not many. Only at Ranger and Baird are there any real pulls. The truck pulled these hills at about 52 mph, pedal mashed.



Upon arrival home, we topped off the final tank. Miles-177; Gallons- 16. 8; Mileage 4th tank: 10. 54. For this final leg, speed was reduced to 60-65 mph due to late night driving and some pretty bad New Mexico roads.



Summary: Comfort: The new truck is no doubt a comfortable ride, at least loaded. Empty she’s a bit rough. The room provided by the Crew Cab was a real delight. The fancy gadgets were fun and gimmicky, but I wonder about their longevity. Body: The sheet metal on the truck is very, very, flimsy. I don’t know if this matters, it just struck me as cheap. (Our Dodge’s aren’t all that great either in this department). Mileage: A bit of a disappointment. It is not as good as my Dodge, or my brother’s 2002 HO either. It looks like our similarly equipped Dodges (except for the Allison) get 1. 5 more mpg across the board, either loaded or unloaded. This may increase with break-in (the owner hopes so…). Power: Well, this is where it all matters, right? I was impressed with the acceleration with a load, but disappointed with the truck’s ability (should I say inability?) to hold speed, even up mild rolling hills. The Allison downshifts to find the right gear, but usually pulled fourth gear up to redline, then held rpm there until topping out over the hill. I missed my 6-banger’s ability to grunt up these same hills without ever shifting. I must admit that my dodge is heavily bombed, and my brother’s is mildly bombed (EZ only), but both our trucks pull this same trailer with the same load easier and with better mileage. It’s worth saying that when I tow in my Bombed 98, I keep the TST Powermax turned off, benefiting only from my DD Stage II injectors, and my PDR 35 turbo. Transmission: Generally, I’m not a automatic transmission fan, but this Allison is pretty cool. I believe the five closely meshed gears are the reason the Duramax feels so strong when accelerating. This transmission behind a Cummins would be unstoppable. (my opinion).



Apples to Apples? No. My truck and my brothers are bombed.

Chevy Bashing? I’m trying not to. If I had to have a Crew Cab, I’d consider one. It’s a nice ride; very comfortable.



Please don’t turn this information into a pi$$ing contest. I’m not trying to slam anyone’s personal choice. I actually enjoyed driving the truck, and it got the job done. We got there, and then we got home. I just wanted to share MY experience. If I had to have an automatic, and/or had to have a Crew Cab, I wouldn’t be afraid of owning one of these trucks. But, as for me and my house….



Very well writen! Thanks



KC
 
Nice objective report. I'll stick with my '99 3500 and 3. 54 gearing for it pulls my horses without breaking a sweat all day long.

Dave:)
 
I have noticed that in the Tow/Haul mode the Allison does kick down more (and quicker) than with it off.



Again, I pull a 12,000 lb fifth wheel and I do not think it kicks out of 5th any more (or quicker) than either of my AT equipped CTD Rams did.



It would really amaze me that anytruck going up a 6% grade with a GCVW of 19,000 lbs doesn't kick out of OD.



Good report, again I also think the CTD had better MPG too (+1-2 MPG towing and empty), but with 3. 54 vs 3. 73 that stands to reason.
 
THANKS VERY INTERESTING.

I live in Cisco, TX and pull Hay to Lubbock and Midland almost every weekend. I pull with a 3/4 ton '02 4WD, 3. 55's, diablo power puck, Amsoil air filter, and that is all for now - the puck may be acting up, but I still can pull the hill at Baird, TX at 43MPHat the top. I am surprised to hear about the Chevy's performance. By the way, the Hay laods are either 16 bales @ 1300 lbs each or 300 at 50lbs each on a 40ft GN that is 7600 lbs. I'll let ya'll do the math. I should have bought a 1 ton!?!?!?!? but did not know I would be doing this hauling. Any suggestions about possible upgrades on my truck would be welcomed.
 
I don't car if GM gold plates one of there 2500 or 3500 trucks. Had 2 GMC's a 1500 and a 2500. The 1/2 ton was great took me to work every day and carried a tool box and supplys to the range. Now that 454 2500 parts pig after the warrenty was out ,it left us every trip we took towing our 34ft 1989 Avion at 89k 9 altenators, 7 A/C compressers plus water pumps and a whole list of parts. And you want to buy a diesel from a company that gave diesel a bad name for over 10 years . Plus each year they(GM) said no problem we have the diesel fixed. ( If you checked the tow rateing it was rated at 7000lbs) it would take a act of GOD for me to buy a GM DIESEL!! If I needed more room I would buy 2 DODGES that way I would have 4 doors that could be counted on. Or have the wife drive the Buick. Oo. Oo. :-{} In love with my Dodge 62k miles no problems 11-12 mpg towing
 
Last edited:
Re: THANKS VERY INTERESTING.

Originally posted by draymorris

I live in Cisco, TX and pull Hay to Lubbock and Midland almost every weekend. I pull with a 3/4 ton '02 4WD, 3. 55's, diablo power puck, Amsoil air filter, and that is all for now - the puck may be acting up, but I still can pull the hill at Baird, TX at 43MPHat the top. I am surprised to hear about the Chevy's performance. By the way, the Hay laods are either 16 bales @ 1300 lbs each or 300 at 50lbs each on a 40ft GN that is 7600 lbs. I'll let ya'll do the math. I should have bought a 1 ton!?!?!?!? but did not know I would be doing this hauling. Any suggestions about possible upgrades on my truck would be welcomed.
Mine pulled the Cap Rock in 4th gear,but I did have a clear run at it. In love with my 3500:D :D
 
Clem; sounds like you had a 454 from the same batch mine was from. It would eat everything mounted to the front of the engine -- alternators. pulleys, water pumps, belt every 2000 miles. I kept telling them it had a poorly balanced crank. Finally gave up on it. I heard a few years later they recalled them all and replaced the cranks or swapped the engines. Mine was a '94 in a crew cab dually one ton.
 
DrayMorris:



I went through the same thing... buy a 3500. I had a 2500 I beefed up (airbags, heavy shocks etc. . ) and it did OK. I decided to trade it aand was stripping all the aftermarket parts off. I foound I had sheared the lower rear bolts on both sides of the airbag brackets. This was a trainwreck waiting to happen.



My new 3500 doesn't need airbags: it sits level with my 3,200 lb pin weight of my 5th wheel.



Get a 3500!



Wiredawg
 
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