Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ECM and FASS pump

[farrier]

I`m hoping that I can find out what you did with your FASS pump Budman83002. I`ve had the same issue and yes it waited a while before it started throwing these codes and doing in the ECM. I don`t want to have the rebuilt ECM put in until we figure out why this is happening. Can`t afford another ECM. Thanks!

 

[LorenStrodtman]

I see you have not received a reply and would like to help if I can, I have a FASS but it's the DRP (no filters), located on the frame rail, not the engine. You don't mention much supporting information so I'll ask, is the pump wired to an ECM triggered relay, or is the pump powered by the ECM? It is strongly recommended to utilize a relay versus sending all that amperage through the ECM.

 

[BigPapa]

@farrier has started two other threads about electrical issues on his truck. He has a FASS Titanium pump. He thinks his FASS has somehow “taken out” his ECM. He’s not very forthcoming with information and hasn’t posted on the other threads about whether the issue was resolved or that he’s done anything specific that was suggested to him.

Here’s the first thread from June of ‘22 stating his tech is intermittent, the truck died, and that he’d replaced the Crank Sensor three times. No mention of Lift Pump problems, just that the wiring for the FASS may be suspect. No resolution posted.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/wiring.272759/

This is the second thread he started January 1st where he states that he believes the FASS pump has caused his ECM to fail. No resolution posted, no answers to questions, no mention of trying suggested procedures.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/fass-pump-and-ecm.273433/

Now this thread where he’s still convinced the FASS is his problem and now he’s trying to contact someone who’s not a forum member by starting a new thread.

 

[LorenStrodtman]

until we figure out why this is happening

"We" won't be figuring out anything if you don't respond to questions or post more information. I hope by now you've got it resolved.

 

[farrier]

I see you have not received a reply and would like to help if I can, I have a FASS but it's the DRP (no filters), located on the frame rail, not the engine. You don't mention much supporting information so I'll ask, is the pump wired to an ECM triggered relay, or is the pump powered by the ECM? It is strongly recommended to utilize a relay versus sending all that amperage through the ECM.

Thanks for your response. So I had my electrical tech rewire the FASS to the old LP wiring so the ECM didn`t search for the LP and not find it. The truck still wouldn`t start and this time the FASS pump wouldn`t even turn on.I have a new rebuilt ECM on there now as well. We are still getting codes for the CPS P0336 and P0230 and P1689. CPS is good truck has been started and ran before the rewiring of the FASS but RPM needle drops off and comes back but sometimes stay off for a while. This is eliminating issues that we may have thought were a problem. There have been a couple times where i hit a puddle and truck dies but can get it restarted leading me to believe there is a faulty wire somewhere. This is where we are at now and we are definitely scratching our heads! I will start a new thread and maybe get some more brains involved in the mystery! Thanks!

 

[farrier]

"We" won't be figuring out anything if you don't respond to questions or post more information. I hope by now you've got it resolved.

Sorry but been dealing with big snow storm and had been digging out and dealing with life off the grid. Thanks for your help!

 

[petersonj]

@LorenStrodtman asked the following question. You really didn't answer his question.

"You don't mention much supporting information so I'll ask, is the pump wired to an ECM triggered relay, or is the pump powered by the ECM? It is strongly recommended to utilize a relay versus sending all that amperage through the ECM."

Original factory lift pump wiring can damage the ECM because the ECM supplies full amperage for the lift pump to operate. It is important to add a relay to reduce the load on the ECM from about 8 amps to about 150 milliamps. Otherwise, you may damage another ECM.

- John

 

[farrier]

@LorenStrodtman asked the following question. You really didn't answer his question.

"You don't mention much supporting information so I'll ask, is the pump wired to an ECM triggered relay, or is the pump powered by the ECM? It is strongly recommended to utilize a relay versus sending all that amperage through the ECM."

Original factory lift pump wiring can damage the ECM because the ECM supplies full amperage for the lift pump to operate. It is important to add a relay to reduce the load on the ECM from about 8 amps to about 150 milliamps. Otherwise, you may damage another ECM.

- John

Thanks John. I believe he went through the relay that I had on there since we discussed that but I will double check on that. He`s a very good electricl guy and I showed him the schematic you guys posted a while back. I just posted another post if you get a chance to read it and see what you think. It`s been quite a nightmare trying to chase a needle in a haystack.

 

[farrier]

Hi Scott. I

@farrier has started two other threads about electrical issues on his truck. He has a FASS Titanium pump. He thinks his FASS has somehow “taken out” his ECM. He’s not very forthcoming with information and hasn’t posted on the other threads about whether the issue was resolved or that he’s done anything specific that was suggested to him.

Here’s the first thread from June of ‘22 stating his tech is intermittent, the truck died, and that he’d replaced the Crank Sensor three times. No mention of Lift Pump problems, just that the wiring for the FASS may be suspect. No resolution posted.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/wiring.272759/

This is the second thread he started January 1st where he states that he believes the FASS pump has caused his ECM to fail. No resolution posted, no answers to questions, no mention of trying suggested procedures.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/fass-pump-and-ecm.273433/

Now this thread where he’s still convinced the FASS is his problem and now he’s trying to contact someone who’s not a forum member by starting a new thread.

I`d been dealing with a big storm that left us buried out here. Had a lot of snow related issues to deal with. My guy has been out to work on the truck following all the advice given here. I posted a new thread on here with what`s been going on. I actually don`t believe the FASS was taking out the ECM. What we have been thinking is the ECM was looking for the old LP and was not finding it as it was wired in another way. If you get a chance to look at my new thread it will give you updates on what we`ve done and the results. I tagged you so you would see what I wrote. Thanks for your help. We are off the grid out here and when we get hit with a storm this size I have to disappear and focus on that. Also I`m not sure who I was contacting who`s not a forum member as I`ve been directing all my questions to the guys on here. Sorry if it somehow seemed like I was doing that. I thought everyone on here was a forum member.

 

[petersonj]

@farrier , I understand about the storm and life sometimes getting in the way.

At this point in time it is getting difficult for forum members to offer help because information regarding the problems you are having are scattered and the timeline has been lost. The following ideas could help:

* Fill out your signature. I had to review several posts to figure out what year your truck is.
* List a timeline of events that show the date and approximate mileage of when each problem occurred and what repairs or tests were done. Carry the timeline recordings forward as you post new information.
* Post only in one location.

Thank you,

- John

 

[farrier]

@farrier , I understand about the storm and life sometimes getting in the way.

At this point in time it is getting difficult for forum members to offer help because information regarding the problems you are having are scattered and the timeline has been lost. The following ideas could help:

* Fill out your signature. I had to review several posts to figure out what year your truck is.
* List a timeline of events that show the date and approximate mileage of when each problem occurred and what repairs or tests were done. Carry the timeline recordings forward as you post new information.
* Post only in one location.

Thanks you,

- John

Thank you for the helpful suggestions John. I don`t know if my new post is of any help but I`ll go back and read it and try to connect it to the old ones.I value everyone`s input on here because of experiences and the knowledge that you all have. I`m a 65 year old school bus driver who tries to do as much work as possible on my vehicles but these kind of electrical issues are not something I can do. A friend here turned me onto this electrical mechanic who knows electrical and will read the manufacturers manuals that I got for him. I`ve been relaying these diagrams and ideas to him which has helped a lot. I`m not sure about where to fill out the signature. Thanks for your patience! Denise

 

[BigPapa]

@farrier, I notice in the thread above you wrote “Thanks for your patience! Denise”. Now, not that it REALLY matters, and I’m certainly not trying to be chauvinistic, but assuming you wouldn’t misspell your own name, might I assume you’re a lady? Like I said, it doesn’t really matter, but I would’ve been more courteous to a lady and feel I need to apologize for the coarseness in my reply.

I assumed from your post I quoted below that you were trying to contact someone going by “Budman83002”. There’s no one on TDR using that user name.

I`m hoping that I can find out what you did with your FASS pump Budman83002.

I’m not sure you can have a signature if you’re not a TDR member.

I agree with John, you need to provide more details and a more concise timeline in one thread.

 

[farrier]

@farrier, I notice in the thread above you wrote “Thanks for your patience! Denise”. Now, not that it REALLY matters, and I’m certainly not trying to be chauvinistic, but assuming you wouldn’t misspell your own name, might I assume you’re a lady? Like I said, it doesn’t really matter, but I would’ve been more courteous to a lady and feel I need to apologize for the coarseness in my reply.

I assumed from your post I quoted below that you were trying to contact someone going by “Budman83002”. There’s no one on TDR using that user name.


I’m not sure you can have a signature if you’re not a TDR member.

I agree with John, you need to provide more details and a more concise timeline in one thread.

Yes I`m a Denise and not Dennis, but still when I`m waiting for my slice of pizza on my to go order some young person calls out Dennis and I just go get my pizza! There was a guy who responded to my thread that went by that name Budman so I was responding back. I`m assuming you have to be a paid member is that right? I`m not but I`ve been able to ask questions and get help. Can I ask you the questions here? I think you are one of the folks who was really helpful and DavidC. One of you posted the wiring schematic to wire back into the original LP. My mechanic is stumped as to what is going on, Before I write this all out to you I would like your permission to give you the details.Thank you and no worries on "coarseness"! I`ve worked in male dominated jobs a long time. If you help me get my truck going you can even call me Dennis!

 

[endoscott]

"If you help me get my truck going you can even call me Dennis!"

Now thats funny! Glad you don't have a thin skin! It's a pretty good value to be a member...just sayin'

 

[BigPapa]

I’ll gladly help all I can. We do need info on your truck, though. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

Also, I’ve looked high and low here on TDR, on CompD, and Cummins Forum, and the closest I found to “Budman” was a guy on CF going by “budmen”.

 

[farrier]

I’ll gladly help all I can. We do need info on your truck, though. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

Also, I’ve looked high and low here on TDR, on CompD, and Cummins Forum, and the closest I found to “Budman” was a guy on CF going by “budmen”.

It`s a 1999 5.9L 4x4 quad cab. Just under 300,000 miles. I bought it new. First time LP went out and garage put the new one in the tank. Eventually that one went and killed my VP44. I looked into this FASS pump and had one installed about 7.5 years ago by a diesel mechanic. I did have this guy install a fuel pressure gauge but he didn`t hook it up right so it read I had fuel pressure when I didn`t. I`ve had ongoing issues with codes especially the CPS. It`s been changed several times and now we have realized it is not bad. I have an excellent electric automotive guy working on it. He had me order the manufacturers manuals and can read these things and understand. Previous to him I had another guy who was good but lost his shop. He replaced CPS and then diagnosed my ECM was bad.( He also connected my fuel guage correctly). Replaced that about 3.5 years ago and and trucks good for a couple years. I start having issues with the FASS not running. turned out to be a blown fuse. Then I called FASS and they guy asked if it was a cummins and I said yes so he told me that I needed to wire directly to a hot source because the ECM wasn`t recognizing it. I couldn`t get the guy who lost his shop so I did it myself. Off I go again for about a year and then I start having issues again.CPS code P0336, P1689,no communication between ECM and injection pump module. So enter my new mechanic. He`s been studying the manuals he had me get. Testing wires and found one bad wire between PCM and ECM then found that the heater grid was bad and the elements. Replaced them and truck has been been running off and on for the last 6 months.Consistent issues are engine light and a hiccup when running and seems to coinside with RPM needle dropping off. Sometimes briefly and sometimes drops off for a while. Once we can start it it will run. He kept getting the ECM code so we sent mine off to rebuild it and they called and said it couldn`t be rebuilt because the microprossor was bad. I orderd a reman from this place Flagship one and it has been installed and still throwing the same codes. I sent my guy the pictures from this sight with the wiring to use the old lift pump connection because it seemed the idea was the ECM was looking for the lift pump and there was none because FASS is hooked up to a source not including ECM and old wires were just left open. So he did this the other day and now the FASS doesn`t even turn on so he hotwired it and it turned on but truck would crank and not start. So here we are banging our heads against the wall. I will add that there were 2 instances involving water. I hit a large puddle of water a year and half ago and the truck died on me. I was able to start back up but when I stopped at the light it died again. Started it back up and pulled into a station to fuel up and got it started and drove 4 hours home. We also changed out the pigtail to the CPS this past summer thinking that might be it. It was suggested I clean the engine from oil from blowby. I took it to the bus yard and sprayed cleaner on it trying to be careful not to hit any wires. Waited 15 minutes and hosed it off also trying to be careful. Went to start it up and would crank but not start. Let it sit for about 20 minutes tried again and it started. It seems that water should not be causing a problem. I think I covered most of it. Thanks for the help!

 

[BigPapa]

Flagship1 is bad mojo. I had a bad run in with them trying to get a new PCM for my son’s Mustang. I’ve read of many bad dealings with them since. I mentioned it in this thread where a fellow was having trouble with his VP44. You may find some help in the thread.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/3k-later-a-ton-of-work-and-dead-pedal-is-back.271474/

My knowledge is primarily with 2nd Gen 12-valves, not much help on VP or CR. I have resources I’ll gladly share, but someone more familiar with your truck will have to help you.

 

[Topzide]

@farrier, I'm glad you've got factory manuals coming for your repair guy. I think what you are fighting is a wiring issue! It could be a connector letting water get in a cause a short. Need to isolate all connectors on sensors that are in the start circuit. He's got his hands full, but with manuals, should be able to get it figured out! One thing that may help with schematics, different color high lighters to trace the paths. That way you can follow them easier when at the truck. Good luck and keep us posted on progress. Hopefully others will also chime in with their experiences.

 

[farrier]

Flagship1 is bad mojo. I had a bad run in with them trying to get a new PCM for my son’s Mustang. I’ve read of many bad dealings with them since. I mentioned it in this thread where a fellow was having trouble with his VP44. You may find some help in the thread.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/3k-later-a-ton-of-work-and-dead-pedal-is-back.271474/

My knowledge is primarily with 2nd Gen 12-valves, not much help on VP or CR. I have resources I’ll gladly share, but someone more familiar with your truck will have to help you.

After I ordered the ECM I saw a lot of mixture of bad reviews and good. I hope I got lucky. Mostly the bad were non communication and having to wait for their making good on their warranty. Thanks for your help!

 

[farrier]

@farrier, I'm glad you've got factory manuals coming for your repair guy. I think what you are fighting is a wiring issue! It could be a connector letting water get in a cause a short. Need to isolate all connectors on sensors that are in the start circuit. He's got his hands full, but with manuals, should be able to get it figured out! One thing that may help with schematics, different color high lighters to trace the paths. That way you can follow them easier when at the truck. Good luck and keep us posted on progress. Hopefully others will also chime in with their experiences.