Edge/Att and Smarty Stack

[JHMiller]

Since I installed the Smarty, the Edge has been gauges only. I understand the Smarty programs without timing allows the Edge to be adjusted up for added timing and performance. So what actually does the Edge do with the various systems? How does it make it's power? And what does it not do? I'm concerned that when the Edge intercepts a sensor signal and modifies it to cause the ECM to react in a certain way might not be a good thing with the Smarty program installed and perhaps I should remove the Edge and add gauges. I sure would appreciate any suggestions that would help me mate the two together correctly. Tks in advance, John

 

[JHMiller]

Hey guys and girls, what I really need advice on is what NOT to do with these two. Because I do not know whether these devices for instance, change the duration of the injector pulse, increase the pressure, or a combination of both. Or which does what and how. Hopefully someone has a pretty good handle on what's going on with them and can help me out, tks.

 

[JJPage]

Your comment about Smarty programs without timing, is not correct. The even sw's have stock timing and the odd sw's have increased advanced timing. So adding additional timing from the Edge to any of the switches can be dangerous, however the odd's would be the greatest risk.



I do not know how much timing the Edge adds, but if you stack it with the Smarty, do so at your own risk. Most of the folks stacking the Smarty with TST, have a newer TST that the timing can be turned off or adjusted down.



I am not familiar with your Edge ATT, does it have adjustable timing? Maybe someone who has done this stack will chime in and help you out.

 

[Kday]

I've heard they don't play well with each other so I didn't try it. However I stacked my Smarty with a Striker 2 psi box and it works well. I think the Juice and the Smarty both do duration and timing so probably a bad combo/too much of a good thing.

 

[cerberusiam]

The Edge adds quite a bit of timing. Stock timing on the Smarty if you are turning it up, the lowest setting if your looking for mileage.

 

[JHMiller]

Do I Understand

Thanks for the input. Ok, is this correct? If STOCK means stock(no additional added timing) on each unit then as long as the Smarty even sw's are used the edge can be turned up or if the edge is on 0(stock) the odd sw's may be used. If this is correct? If so, JJPage your comment about using any edge input above 0 with the even sw's (no additional added timing) I don't understand. Maybe there's something I'm missing?



Kday, tks for the striker input. How do you like the Donaldson? Is it quiet enough?? Do you pull an RV? If so, how is it with a load on?



cerberusiam, that makes sense and seems to be the way I understand it.

I think I'll pull the Edge tomorrow and see what happens. Smarty does have lower EGT's than the Edge. Man the edge above 1, the egt's go 1400 passing WOT on a 2 lane before you can get passed and out of it. Too hot and the torque curve starts too high, about 26K rpm.

Appreciate you guys input, tks. john

 

[JJPage]

JHM, Sorry for not being clear.



The stock timing(even sws)on Smarty, are advanced before TDC, I believe to about 12*, and the odd sws are advanced as far as 21* before TDC, but this is true only if you leave the options at default. You can run any timing option on odd and even sws.



Since Mads and Edge do not provide us their fuel/timing maps, we do not know at what rpms these parameters may well be outside of, what is safe. With too much advanced timing (especially on our 03/04s because we have a wider degree spray angle than 04. 5+ trucks) you will be spraying fuel outside of the bowl and onto the crown of the piston, and even cylinder walls. This will result in a meltdown very quickly.



That's why I stated to do so "at your own risk". I sure would not want you to damage your motor, and also sure you do not want to either. I hope that explained my position a bit better. Jess

 

[JHMiller]

Tks Jess

Thanks, that is why I have left the edge on 0(stock) and plan on removing it. It doesn't work well alone because the factory program reflash is SOL and the ECM still goes to sleep unless I'm pulling. I don't hot rod the truck but have to WOT it a couple of times to wake it up. Bunch of crap. I just never know how it's going to perform when I need it. This is the drawback to a piggy back ECM like the Edge and why I decided to try the Smarty and replace the program.

One thing that surprised me with the Smarty is NO smoke or very little. I didn't have any with the Edge either. Perhaps this has been corrected in Smarty because there have been lots of comments earlier about Smarty smoke???

Ths guys for the input... John

 

[JHMiller]

Removed Edge

What a change, the truck is running super on SW5. Either the edge is still doing something on 0, supposedly stock. Which wouldn't and in this case didn't mix with the Smarty performance program installed. It has a problem, which it might because someone in the glass shop I believe passed a magnet over it and it didn't wake up for 2 days. Never had it checked. I guess I will now.

One issue I've had twice now is right after fueling and then 5 miles afterward the truck shakes like it's dropped a cylinder when it's restarted. Restarting it several times has no affect. After being off for a while it runs like new?? No codes?

Right now I have no idea if this might be a program issue or something on the motor that just happen to pick now to act up. If this sounds familiar to anyone's experience please let me have your suggestions.

Again tks in advance... John

 

[DFairhurst]

i had the smarty and edge hot juice on my truck for a while an had the smarty timing on stock and still had lots of injector rattle and poping at low rpm in low gears before it would build boost couldnt figure it out for the life of me removed one or the other an ran great again i think its the duration thas causes the problems between the two.

I have a tst on there now an can really roll the coal if need be no injector rattle or popping life is good again.

Fyi you can change the settings on the smarty without removing your edge or tst

 

[DogramTD]

I cant seem to make sense of this thread... . I can or can't run my edge/smarty simultaneously? If so; one or the other must be set at stock? Should I keep my edge for the monitor and not not waste my money on pillar guages? (I am about to buy a smarty but now am confused about keeping or selling the edge... . )

 

[DFairhurst]

they DONT work well together the edge has alot of timing so you have to run the smarty on stock timing because the edge is nonadjustable on the timing.

when i would try and turn one or the other up my truck "edge smarty stack" it would start rattling "injection rattle" i think it was due to the edge timing an both messing with the fuel duration, dont know if they would cross each other out or what but rattled very bad at low rpm and if i turned one or the other up pass about 90hp it would pop like miss fire or droping a cyl. the smarty delivers fuel out of the hole an edge is more higher rpm before it pour full fuel.

my tst i run the timing on 3degrees an very little tq... like 1, an turn the hp "higher rpm fueling" up an down if i want more or less and let the smarty pretty much do the lower rpm. wrks well no popping or rattling... unless i turn the timing up.

if edge had adjustable timing i would go back in a heart beat. dont like how tst throws cam codes all the time.

but yes if you leave your edge on stock an use it just for gauges it will be fine i did that until my tst showed up... . if you sell your edge and buy manual gauges it will be a wash in price you will get about what it costs to put manual gauges in so if you like your edge gauges keep it... good luck

 

[DogramTD]

Got it, thanks DFair. Leave the edge on stock. I think i'll keep my edge for gauging and run the smarty for tuning. The edge has many more parameters than the standard 3 guage pillar. If I dont like it, I can always sell it later.

 

[JHMiller]

Keep the Edge-that's what I thought to

Well keeping the edge for gauges seemed the ok thing to do, running it on 0 I thought there would be no interaction between the two devices. Not so, removing the edge and using just the smarty gave me performance I never had with the edge alone or in combo with the edge. Don't know what was going on but mine did not mix. I'm talking a big improvement in performance, wow.

Try just disconnecting the edge, leave it all tie strapped in place but out of the control circuits. Run a couple of different smarty programs, odd and even #'s and see if your truck reacts like mine did. My edge is on the bench for good.

I'm much happier... ... . john

 

[DogramTD]

Thanks John, I most definately will try that when I get home. I like the sound of the convenience but not at the expense of performance. I already let my wife know that we may be buying a new set of guages... (It's a good thing she loves me!)

 

[JHMiller]

Yeah gauges will be installed before I tow this summer, a must. I like the idea of the 2 in 1 Westach setup. They've been building gauges for ever, so I'm thinking I might do that.
Hope you get it figured out and see improvements in performance like I did. After 100k miles of fighting the factory screwed up reflash, I'm finally getting that hang on the throttle feeling back the truck came with. And I like it. With all the adjustability of the POD I'll find just the right spot. Good luck... . john

 

[DogramTD]

Im looking at the ISSPRO guages on the pillar. I had a stroker years ago with those guages and really liked them.

Speaking of reflash, I just had to have the IC replaced because the lights and wipers started going crazy on the truck. She now says it doesnt run the same (doesnt feel like it has the same power it used to) I'm curious to know if the Stealership flashed my ECM. They did have the truck for a month because they couldnt figure out the problem, not sure if that may have been one of their attempted fixes... I hope not! Guess I'll find out when I get home!

 

[DFairhurst]

ISSPRO makes good gauges they match the factoy colors white with red dial. . I have the edge piller with the juice pod mount an the 2" manual gauge hole that i have a ISSPRO boost gauge beacuse the edge an tst only read the factory map an its limited to only reading 40lbs of boost

 

[JHMiller]

If there was a program upgrade(reflash) available from Chrysler it was done when they had your truck, it's SOP. They swear "everythings within parameters" on my 03 but it's never run right since. I've not heard much about newer truck program issues but ya never know. There is a sticker under the hood on trucks I've seen that indicates date of reflash. The "stock" programs in a Smarty will be the latest from Chrysler if it's updated, I've not went back to stock so not sure what will happen there yet.

 

[DogramTD]

I'll have to check it out when I get home. Ordered the gauges yesterday; Im not gonna take the chance with running both programmers at the same time, I tow too heavy for a mistake!