Edge Insight CTS3: does Turbo Timer require a separate unit and manifold temp sensor?

[DonRam240]

I'm planning to add the monitoring-only CTS3 to our 2018 Ram 3500HD pickup, and include the Turbo Timer. I thought from reading about it that this required adding the Turbo Timer accessory, and installing a sensor in the exhaust manifold, using a Basic Starter Kit to daisy chain the input to the CTS3. Mach 1 Motorsports in Hillsboro, Oregon is the place recommended to me by our dealer for this work. I was positively impressed visiting them to plan this yesterday. Their chief mechanic researched it, and he thinks the CTS3 has the Turbo Timer internally and could use one of the EGT feeds from the OBDII port to operate. That would mean nothing extra to buy at all. He had a hard time getting a complete, solid-sounding answer from the rep on the phone; remember this is now a tiny division of Holley, so we weren't talking to an Edge expert.
Can someone say, does the CTS3 have its own internal Turbo Timer that can use a factory EGT feed, from the sensor closest to the exhaust manifold? I understand that under load, at operating engine speed, the closest sensor can see a temp that is 20-30 deg F lower than the manifold exhaust temp, and that's why a manifold sensor is recommended for this function. If the basic idea works, and the set point for the Turbo Timer is adjustable as the mechanic understands things to be, could I use this method and just set the shutdown temp 30 degrees lower than the design setting so I can't mess it up with a quick stop on the road, forgetting to let her idle for 3-4 minutes?

 

[Wiredawg]

I saw no one answered, so thought I might suggest you contact Edge customer service... they've been excellent for me over the years and they likely have the answer you're looking for.

Cheers, Ron

 

[SSage]

I have a Edge CTS3, the way the menus are set up I don't see a turbo timer option unless you have the Edge pyro.

With the water cooled turbo is the EGT shut down even really needed? Use the timer for three minutes and skip it I would think.

With my old 2003 it takes a while after a hard pull too cool down though. At rest stops its usually still running when I get back from a pee break. I have mine set for 300 though. Running empty my regular oil cooled only turbo cools down quick, like three minutes or less in the summer with the air-con off.

 

[Ozymandias]

Coming down to 300 is impossible on a new truck as the Emissins system keeps the Temps way higher to work properly when idling.

As mentioned, I see no benefit from that system on a water cooled turbo.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I see no benefit from that system on a water cooled turbo.

I'm not as intimate with the 6.7s but I was thinking along this line as well. The owners manual for the 5.9s has cool down times relative to the load and road speed. In the time it takes me to fill out my trip log for a stop I've exceeded the loaded hard use running condition cool down time for the turbo.

 

[Jim W]

Ozzy, the benefit is that a turbo timer on a 6.7L engine with intact emission systems or removed, is it will lighten your wallet. So, you will in theory be carrying less weight of a couple $$.

To the OP: I had installed gauges on my truck very early on when new. I have towed with the emissions intact; I never could get the EGT's below 450F at idle for 10 or more minutes. Even now with a Smarty S67 on my truck, the EGT's will never go below 350F at idle. I have a probe in the exhaust manifold between the No, 3 and 4 cylinders to monitor the EGT's. I have found when I am towing and exit the interstate say to a rest area by the time, I get to a parking space the turbo has cooled down from 900F or so, to 400F. There has been no need to allow the engine to idle to cool the temp on the EGT any more. The entire 6.7L engine was redesigned to operate at higher temps for emission use so, the old standby of idling an engine to cool done does not apply any more.

 

[DonRam240]

All the above is noted and appreciated. Would not fault anyone for NOT doing what I'm doing here on a truck with a water cooled turbo. As said before, color me cautious.
I ordered the Edge Insight CTS3 directly from Edge Products/Holley. The Holley rep who served me had the good fortune to have an Edge expert in the office at that moment to give a correct answer about what to order for a correct Turbo Timer installation. Besides the 84130-3 CTS3, for my 2018 Ram Cummins, you need the 98604 EAS Universal Turbo Timer (which comes with a needed installation cable that is also a separate part for other purposes) and the 98620 EAS EGT Starter Kit which includes the probe to be installed in the exhaust manifold (you supply your own tap and other tools). With a driver A pillar Pillar Pod for my desired mounting location, ready to be installed.
Instructions are decent, but already clear that some experience with menu logic, touch screens, and ability to read between the lines will be important.

 

[DonRam240]

Edge Insight CTS3 installed. Configuring a preferred display and data choices (OBDII outputs, each called a “PID” by Edge instructions) was fairly straightforward and intuitive after reading instructions. Pillar Pod is an excellent position: easy to glance at display without losing attention to the road, places device close to same focal plane as the EVIC in the dash in front of driver so eyes don’t have to change focus moving from dash display to Edge display. Pillar Pod installation was also easy, minor fussing to get screw aligned in A pillar threads. Nice cable routing through slot in left lower edge of Pod molding leads cable to where it can be run behind the door gasket, then under dash. Removing the left side dash cover plate is easy with “safe” plastic pry tool.

For EGT probe installation: A couple of hours of searching and watching videos that didn’t help, finally yielded some excellent 4th Gen Cummins instructions for removing inner passenger side fender liner, exposing the area on the manifold for drilling and tapping, and using heavy grease on drill bit and tap to retain chips carefully removing them as you go. With a mechanic friend’s help, this is planned for a Saturday soon in my shop.
Link and images:
Two images of instructions and diagrams for fender liner removal. May need body shop plastic push pins to replace those if broken.
Push pin removal from Chrysler instruction manual:

Screws and fender liner removal from Chrysler instruction manual:

And thanks (!! to the person who posted these instructions for drilling and tapping, installing EGT probe and routing cables, with fender liner out of the way:
https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/chriss-edge-jwa-cts-install.1445897/page-3#post18048018

 

[DonRam240]

Finally a report of the actual installation of the EGT sensor in the exhaust manifold of our 2018 Ram 3500 Cummins. This required both the Edge 98611 Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor and the 98620 "Starter Kit", which permits connection from the sensor cable to the Edge Insight monitor with the Starter Kit cable routed through slit made in a small firewall grommet in a convenient location.
Removing the passenger side inner fender liner with the help of a younger mechanic friend/helper was straightforward. He did the drill work as well. I bought replacement plastic fasteners for the fender liner ahead of time, and was glad I did because a couple of them did not survive removal in condition to be reused. Parts store display didn't have a fastener option to match labeled "Dodge" or "Ram", but a Ford option was a very close match that worked well.
Here is the view with wheel/tire and fender liner removed (after sensor installed). As promised, it gave a straight-on view of the manifold with room to drill.

The turbo is straight down below on this 2018 Cummins, so chips were a concern. I used an ordinary hardware store screwdriver magnetizer to magnetize the specified drill bit, using a Cobalt bit, and also put heavy wheel bearing grease on the bit to hold chips even better. We removed grease and chips after each partial drilling session, and re-magnetized the bit after every 2-3 partial drilling sessions, because the heat of drilling gradually de-magnetized the bit. I doubt that any chips were lost. These pictures show the small 3/8" corded drill doing its work. We put a depth stop on the bit to avoid hitting the back wall of manifold.

Finished close-up shows location just to the right of the middle divider inside the manifold; we didn't hit that at all with the bit. We tapped only to about 2/3 of the way on the tap threads, which meant the sensor is well-seated but not all the way to the bottom of its threads either when tightened carefully "just enough." We used high temperature thread compound (the nickel-based type) on the sensor.

With "ExManTemp" now in the standard display on the Edge monitor, I've learned that the Aisin will stay in a gear going upgrade, in Tow-Haul Mode, under load long enough to push the manifold temp past the 1250 degree point, my chosen safe level, so I know when to choose 5th or 4th or lower depending on the grade and load. I know Cummins now says these engines are safe to 1500 degrees with current metallurgy, but I'm thinking "yes, long enough for the warranty, but for hundreds of thousands of miles?" Perhaps overkill but I'm glad we did it. It came out pleasingly well.
The Edge Turbo Timer was also added, keyed to the manifold temp, and works perfectly. Now I can't screw up stopping for something on the road and not thinking before I shut her down. Our daughter can borrow truck and camper and I don't have to worry about her, either. She did so recently, and enjoyed the experience. The engine runs for several minutes, sometimes when I wouldn't have expected the temp to be high enough to need it. The default setting for the Turbo Timer is 400 degrees; I put it at 380 for good measure and it runs a bit longer but shuts off before too long. You can remove the key and lock the truck and go inside a store without worry, no one can drive it away. Just enough overkill to make a happy owner
Don

 

[06 Dodge]

To me it looks like you have a crack in your manifold...

 

[AH64ID]

1250° is a number based on much more advanced timing than your 2018 runs stock. Timing is crucial, 1400° at one timing can be safer than 1200° at a more advanced timing.

Let it run, these motors don’t run themselves to death… even after hundreds of thousands of miles. Simply put you are limiting yourself unnecessarily.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

To me it looks like you have a crack in your manifold...

Cast seam maybe?

 

[DonRam240]

Cast seam maybe?

Yes, that’s a normal part of the casting.