EGR vs SCR! Can you keep it clean?

[KonjikiNoDiesel]

So, recently I visited a friend from Europe and told him all my problems about the EGR, DPF, DEF, SCR, etc...on my dodge truck. I want to delete them but I'm also commercial and the Green Peace Police is all over the place here. Anyway, back to my friend. He has an engineering & chemistry degree. So, he knows all the EPA chemistry to keep our air clean from toxics like Nox or Soot. I described every single component on the truck and its function to him and he pretty much told me that I do NOT need an EGR coolant system or a DPF/DOC on the truck because these items choke the engine, dump fuel, generate a serious amount of heat and damages the engine with carbon soot. So, the only system that I would need to run a ZERO emission truck here would be the DEF and SCR.

Let's review these set of 3 word letters - DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) which is the water looking UREA you buy at $4 per gallon...a chemical that is ammonia but in a dumb-proof state so people don't die or put in the fuel tank since it looks like diesel.
SCR - (Selective Catalytic Reduction) a system that converts nitrogen oxides, also referred to as NOx in a catalysts chamber made from various ceramic materials. This is NOT a filter so no cleaning involved. However, this SCR does requires a DEF Tank, Pump (plus filter), Injector, and Supply lines.

My next project is going to be the removal of a "few items" in "a random" truck to see if the need of extra parts are not need it. I do believe that software and tuning is going to be difficult since the systems changed in 2007, 2010, 2013, and also 2016 for Dodge RAM trucks.

My question is the following. Has anyone done this...removing everything but the SCR system? I read somewhere in a diesel forum that a guy from Canada did this idea but everyone told him he was crazy and was wasting his time. Any ideas, comments, suggestions will be appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[Badunit]

Did your friend happen to explain why Ram/Cummins would add thousands of dollars of emissions equipment to these trucks that is not only unnecessary but harmful to the engine, reduces mpg, and increases their warranty costs? If it was not necessary to meet EPA testing, why would they do it? I think your friend is incorrect about the chemistry but correct about the bad things the emission system does to the engine.

 

[m35a2]

I wonder how "bad" the EGR really is, considering that it lowers combustion temperatures.
Does lowering combustion temperature equate to longer engine life?

IF so, how much does the EGR affect gas mileage in comparison to extending the life of the engine?

 

[Bob4x4]

The egr induces an oxygen depleted air,this will reduce power and fuel mileage.It;s only purpose is to lower emissions.

 

[Newsa]

It does reduce emissions by lowering combustion temps, tho. Lower temps,=less NOx (more soot in the oil = less soot out the back). This is why I run an amsiol bypass filter in addition to the stock fleetguard.

Apparently, these trucks don't go into limp mode (when you run out of DEF) because they meet EPA standards without the SCR/Def.
But rumour is they will do away with EGR soon. And the trucks will need the SCR/DEF or will go into limp mode.

Although, these 2013+ trucks have less EGR than pre DEF trucks.

 

[Newsa]

I suspect they will go back to 2 radiators when they (if they) eliminate EGR

 

[Newsa]

I suspect my problems with increasing oil volume, is mild fuel dilution along with some soot collection in oil. The soot goes into the oil sump before the larger particles get filtered out?

I am fine changing every 6 months tho. But sometimes I change sooner.

 

[Wayne M.]

I think your friend was referring to euro 5 which is the next frontier of emissions. The plan is to eliminate cooled EGR and to tone down DPF back to something like what the pre 07.5 trucks had (a DOC) and SCR. This is possible due to recent technology advances such as fuel control and electronic engine management.

SCR needs DEF to operate, so I consider these one device.
A DOC and DPF control certain diesel emissions and the SCR controls others. One can't cover another as they perform different functions.
If I needed my truck to be reliable and legal, I would leave it be, and focus on maintenance.

 

[Wayne M.]

I suspect they will go back to 2 radiators when they (if they) eliminate EGR

Cooling problems started when EGR came along. That EGR cooler puts a lot of heat into the cooling system.
I had the pleasure of hearing a war story from a Ford engineer who did lots of work on the 6.0.
The issue was part failures down stream of the EGR cooler. So after a lot of detective work, they realized the aftermarket EGR cooler on said truck couldn't exchange the exhaust gas heat into the coolant within the cooler, so the engine was flowing 900* air back into the engine. The lesson was that the OE cooler is super efficient and shed that heat in 18".
My point is that once that heat source is gone, the system will be much less taxed, and they may even be able to reduce radiator size.

 

[Newsa]

Cooling problems started when EGR came along. That EGR cooler puts a lot of heat into the cooling system.
I had the pleasure of hearing a war story from a Ford engineer who did lots of work on the 6.0.
The issue was part failures down stream of the EGR cooler. So after a lot of detective work, they realized the aftermarket EGR cooler on said truck couldn't exchange the exhaust gas heat into the coolant within the cooler, so the engine was flowing 900* air back into the engine. The lesson was that the OE cooler is super efficient and shed that heat in 18".
My point is that once that heat source is gone, the system will be much less taxed, and they may even be able to reduce radiator size.

Actually, that's a good point. Very true

 

[jhenderson]

None of you noticed " Zero Emission Truck"?

 

[Newsa]

None of you noticed " Zero Emission Truck"?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannm...ty-truck-powered-by-electricity/#419d7bd178f1

 

[Wayne M.]

None of you noticed " Zero Emission Truck"?

Yes I skimmed that. Aside from leaving the key out of the ignition....

 

[JR]

None of you noticed " Zero Emission Truck"?

Perhaps the OP needs one of these.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/first-electric-semi-truck-cummins-not-tesla/

 

[Wayne M.]

Perhaps the OP needs one of these.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/first-electric-semi-truck-cummins-not-tesla/

Yea what's that all about?! Are they drinking the kool aid? They're an ENGINE company. Not a MOTOR company.

 

[Newsa]

Yea what's that all about?! Are they drinking the kool aid? They're an ENGINE company. Not a MOTOR company.

I agree. An engine company, not a motor company, and not a truck manufacturer.

Cummins provides engines to truck companies, and usually paires with a company like Petetbuilt for concepts/prototypes/design models.

Never heard of a Cummins branded truck.

 

[JR]

I read somewhere the truck is nothing more than a mule for the powertrain and was built by Roush. They have no intention of ever producing a truck.

As far as their venture into electrification, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in some of their meetings. I suspect they believe this is the direction we are headed eventually. They've been playing with diesel/electric hybrids for a while so this isn't all that surprising.
One thing is certain, Cummins has never been a company to rest on their successes. They've always been at the forefront of new technology, diesel included.

 

[jhenderson]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannm...ty-truck-powered-by-electricity/#419d7bd178f1

That has what to do with the original posters claim of his truck being zero emission?