2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Egt

[GQuigley]

My '01 2500 CTD Ram has 205,000 miles a 4:10 Dana 80 but is a standard engine. Bought it new but didn't realize that I should have gotten the engine heavy duty not standard duty. It pulls my 30' 5th wheel fine on most roads but in the mountains my EGT's creep up and I often have to let off on the gas to lower the temperature but I lose a lot of power when doing so. It is a pain to creep up those mountain passes. I have 4" exhaust but is there someway I can keep the EGT down without loosing so much power? Money is a problem otherwise I would get a newer truck that doesn't have this problem. I don't know what causes these high EGT's so ignorance is my excuse.
Gary

 

[petersonj]

My '01 2500 CTD Ram has 205,000 miles a 4:10 Dana 80 but is a standard engine. Bought it new but didn't realize that I should have gotten the engine heavy duty not standard duty.

If your truck is equipped with an automatic or 5 speed manual transmission, the engine is rated at 235 hp / 460 lb/ft torque. If it is a manual 6 speed, then the engine is rated at 245 hp / 505 lb/ft torque. It is the same engine, not standard or heavy duty, just set up to produce power which is limited by the type of transmission.

What do your exhaust temperatures creep up to? 1100, 1220, 1300 degrees?

- John

 

[SAndreasen]

I've never had a problem with high egt do you have a chip or power programmer ?

 

[SAndreasen]

Have you checked your air filter lately ? Lack of air can cause high egt

 

[GQuigley]

My truck is in the shop getting the ball joints replaced and I won't get it back until tomorrow. I have added 3 column gauges to tell me these things. I won't know the actual temp it reads until I get my truck back but on the EGT's when it gets to hot it is in the red temperature section and when it gets close or in there is when I back off. I have a automatic trans which I had rebuilt by DTT and everything in it is heavy duty. The torque converter is not a triple. I replaced the air cleaner with a new one prior to leaving on vacation. I have no chip but I do have a Smarty but I wasn't using it. I replaced the stock exhaust manifold with a new one to eliminate any possible problem. What causes the higher EGT? I did replace the turbo about 8 years ago but all I can recall is it was a Piers (?) but I don't know which one.
Gary

 

[GReed]

My truck is a 2002 HO 6sp. It is basically stock. As of now only a Power Puck. When I tow my 30' 5th wheel, the EGTs will get up into the red (color coded Isspro pyro) pretty easily pulling mountain passes. I just gear down and back out of it. When towing heavy up mountain passes, no need to get in a hurry. Red on the gauge is 1250-1500 deg. I back out when it gets into the red and try to keep it in the yellow.

 

[SAndreasen]

I have 275 injectors and 5 stage edge I have my egt limit set at 1250 degrees the guy I bought it from had it set at 1450 even then I couldn't go over 1300

 

[RWherley]

Is your pyro prob pre or post turbo? Is this a new issue or has been there all along?

 

[KATOOM]

Good news is that you do have the HD engine as all of the Cummins ISB's were the same duty. The only difference's in the 2nd generation trucks was the HO (high output) and the SO (standard output), but both were still HD motors. Matter of fact, the Cummins ISB 5.9 is a medium duty engine in a light duty truck. The GM Duramax and Ford Powerstroke are both light duty engines. The term HD for heavy duty is not related to the engine and generally just a marketing tool.

As for your EGT's, what gauge are you using and where is the thermocouple plumbed into the exhaust. That may make a difference. Also, you may have a boost leak which will certainly increase EGT's. Knowing what your boost levels are could answer that.

 

[GQuigley]

Shortly after I bought the truck new I had Banks install their system on it including their column gauges. The Banks box has been disconnected since then per Bob 4X4's advice because of problems I was having that Bob said the Banks box was creating. The EGT gauge source thermocouple is a tapped hole in the exhaust manifold. The other two gauges (boost and transmission temp) never seem to get that high. I don't know anything about the boost because I am kind of dumb in that area. I have a big (Mag-Hytec) transmission pan for lube and temp issues and it works because I have never had high temps and the fluid is always clean, red and full. What boost pressures should I be looking for?
Gary

 

[KATOOM]

I think I'd be contacting Banks and asking for their opinion. As much as I'm not a fan of Banks stuff, they are a huge company and have customer service for this kinda stuff.

And then maybe you should be asking Bob to be a little more helpful towards you in communicating. Or.....maybe Bob isnt very knowledgeable or smart enough to call Banks either.

As for everything else..... The pyrometer thermocouple should be tapped into the exhaust manifold, as you said yours is. On the left exhaust bank too which will read from the three back hottest running cylinders.
Boost can be tapped in many various locations. Given you have a Banks system, I'm sure its in a correct location.
transmission temp is a good tool for keeping an eye on your transmission health. Keeping the fluid temps no hotter than around 225* is the key. Normal around town stuff should be much cooler.
Fuel pressures are going to be determined by the type of fuel pump you have, fuel line size, and type of fittings. Optimally you want your fuel pressures to never fall lower than around 14 psi. With a quality aftermarket fuel pump set up correctly, to achieve this would mean the idle pressure is going to be around 18-19 psi.

In regards to EGT's, I'm not sure what you're seeing or what Bob thinks the problem is, but nonetheless the normal EGT's for a stock to mild powered engine will read around 600*-700* cruising along at 70 mph unloaded. Around 800*-900* towing on flat ground. And around 1000*-1200* on the hills.

Now those EGT's are just average numbers and not everyone see's the exact same thing. EGT's vary considerably to and is not a slow reaction gauge.

Maybe you need to explain what the "problem" is that way some here can help you.....

 

[Bob4x4]

I think I'd be contacting Banks and asking for their opinion. As much as I'm not a fan of Banks stuff, they are a huge company and have customer service for this kinda stuff.

And then maybe you should be asking Bob to be a little more helpful towards you in communicating. Or.....maybe Bob isnt very knowledgeable or smart enough to call Banks either.

As for everything else..... The pyrometer thermocouple should be tapped into the exhaust manifold, as you said yours is. On the left exhaust bank too which will read from the three back hottest running cylinders.
Boost can be tapped in many various locations. Given you have a Banks system, I'm sure its in a correct location.
transmission temp is a good tool for keeping an eye on your transmission health. Keeping the fluid temps no hotter than around 225* is the key. Normal around town stuff should be much cooler.
Fuel pressures are going to be determined by the type of fuel pump you have, fuel line size, and type of fittings. Optimally you want your fuel pressures to never fall lower than around 14 psi. With a quality aftermarket fuel pump set up correctly, to achieve this would mean the idle pressure is going to be around 18-19 psi.

In regards to EGT's, I'm not sure what you're seeing or what Bob thinks the problem is, but nonetheless the normal EGT's for a stock to mild powered engine will read around 600*-700* cruising along at 70 mph unloaded. Around 800*-900* towing on flat ground. And around 1000*-1200* on the hills.

Now those EGT's are just average numbers and not everyone see's the exact same thing. EGT's vary considerably to and is not a slow reaction gauge.

Maybe you need to explain what the "problem" is that way some here can help you.....

You are assuming way to much.Gary's Truck has been with out the Banks system for over a 100k.It was tripping codes.It has been running great,ever since.No egt problems ever...........

 

[KATOOM]

You are assuming way to much.Gary's Truck has been with out the Banks system for over a 100k.It was tripping codes.It has been running great,ever since.No egt problems ever...........

Now thats funny..... Here I made some sort of correlation that "Bob4x4" was a local business whom Gary took his truck to and their advice was simply to disconnect the Banks equipment. Didnt realize we were talking about another member who gave advice 100k miles ago. :-laf

So in my defense, I didnt assume too much because it clearly seems there's more to this story which wasnt part of the thread. As for how great Gary's truck has been running..... Well maybe you're assuming too much since Gary just started a thread asking why his truck hasnt been running right, and has EGT problems.

Not sure I'd be too happy either about spending as much money on the Banks components, as it probably did cost, only to have it not work right, and then just unplug it. As I mentioned before, I'd be calling Banks and talking to them about their product. Maybe the parts were faulty from the get go or maybe there was another problem which should have or could have been addressed long ago. At this stage I couldn't say what that may potentially be either since this has been obviously going on for quite a long time.

 

[GQuigley]

After I bought my truck (new) I joined the local CTD Ram owners club. I learned about the TDR magazine there and shortly subscribed. In those days many owners were going for power, both pulling and street. Smoke was ignored then and many of the power boxes were just that. I met Bob Goodwin (Bob4X4 on TDR) in the club and he was a diesel mechanic at a local Dodge dealership. All the club members relied on Bob for the latest info about Rams and all updates as well as what things to avoid and/or get. Bob became my mechanic until I retired and moved to another area. The reason I posted my EGT question was I was just hoping and praying that some new stuff was available that would help with my EGT dog problem. When I would let off the gas to lower the temps it would become "granny's" car. Don't know for sure but it might have detuned itself because of the temp but I don't think so. I realize I don't have a hot rod and I don't want one but I was just hoping.......!!!!! I'm sorry that my question caused any problems but it was so frustrating! On most roads the Ram pulls my 5'ver fine with no problems and that is why I bought it because it was the best pulling machine at that time. But those damn 6-8% grades stretched my 76 year old patience to a breaking point. I just don't want to give up and roll over and play dead. There is just so much to see, do and enjoy in this big country of ours.
God Bless
Gary

 

[RWherley]

Its a bit of a long shot but i did have a issue a year or so ago with my waste gate hanging up partly open, it was closed enough that it ran fine on flat ground but would not boost right in hills and would spike the EGT's, I no you have a newer truck with a different fuel pump but my 93 with a stock H1C turbo was making 15 to 20 psi under full throttle

 

[BigPapa]

What causes the higher EGT?

Gary, the basic answer to this question is too much fuel, not enough air, and not enough RPM. To battle escalating EGT's you need to either back off the fuel which lowers your power level or increase RPM's which increases boost and supplies more air. More air, or boost, comes with higher RPM's. Your engine makes it's best power at @ 2500-2700 RPM's. Don't be afraid to drive it there. On these long grades, kick it out of OD and lock the converter. This should put your engine in the sweet spot and keep your EGT's in check. Yes, you will be going slower than in OD on flat ground, but you and your truck will be a lot happier.

 

[GQuigley]

Thanks For the answer

Scott
Thank you for your response! All I ever heard was high EGT's kill an engine but I never heard on what causes these high EGT's except what I experienced. The way you explained it is something I can come to grips with. I never considered myself as an engineer but I was a mechanical designer for over 50 years. Somethings I can understand and some I can't but you did explain it in a manner that I understood. So thank you because I can live and cope with what to do now.
Gary

 

[KATOOM]

Scott is correct. A simple way to understand how a diesel works is by comparing it to a furnace. The more fuel you inject the hotter it will get. And boost has to be one of the biggest misunderstood components to a diesel engine too. Most people think boost is "power" but in reality the only thing that creates power is fuel. Boost plays two other important roles in the power gains. Boost adds air which the fuel needs in order to burn completely and efficiently, and boost also is the incoming air in the cylinder which pushed all the hot air from the prior combustion. This is why when boost decreases EGT's increase.

RPM's are only related to boost simply by the fact that the fast the cylinders move, the more air can flow through the engine. But just because the engine is revving high doesnt mean boost will be high as well. You can rev the engine in neutral in the driveway and you'll see no more than about 2 psi. Rather boost needs the burning fuel to create expanding heat from combustion and the air flowing through the engine. This is why you need to maintain a certain "sweet spot" in the RPM range in order to power up the hills and generate the proper amount of boost. Lugging the RPM's lower simply because its a "diesel" will result in drivetrain abuse and overly hot EGT's.

So again, without fully understanding what Banks system you bought and how it was installed, I cant really add anything other than Banks should be able to offer you some diagnostic help. If their product is/was generating codes in the OBD system then by all mean, call them and let them know. Although its been a looooong time so they may have nothing to add.

In regards to EGT's, if you cant seem to keep them in check while towing in a stock truck then maybe you have a boost leak. Boost leaks arent terribly uncommon either. The rubber boots between the engine and the intercooler can leak around the band clamps as they can get loose over time. Snugging them up pretty tight with a small wrench is sometimes necessary in order to keep air from escaping under the edges. The two bottom boots are very close to the chassis body too and when they expand under boost they can rub on the sheet metal edges which obviously can rub a hole. Then there's other locations like the intake horn gasket or loose bolts on the intake manifold, or a cracked intercooler. Nonetheless, a boost leak will cause the EGT's to increase and if the leak is bad enough then EGT's will be out of control.

I think one thing we need to know is what do you have for gauges and what do those gauges read as "normal" under your everyday driving conditions. Meaning, whats boost at cruising on the freeway and WOT? Whats EGT's while driving along the freeway and while towing? Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? Whats those pressures? Etc..... Basically whatever you can tell about the truck and how it behaves will get the best results from everyone else.