Electric over hydraulic conversion

[FJfonda]

Finally ditched the surge brakes on the boat trailer and converted to an electric over hydraulic setup. After the conversion... took a short ride to check it out and the brakes seem pretty "binary". That is... either they are on or off and don't modulate much. Played with the controller settings a bit but probably need to mess with the brake controller settings more . . any one make this conversion? Is there a controller that would work better than the one I am using? I purchased a Hydrostar electric over hydraulic unit and it was packaged with a DrawTite controller.

 

[ntillm01]

I don't know the answer myself, but I am interested in doing something similar for my 19ft Regal boat trailer. I was researching brake controllers out here recently and learned from several posts that the DrawTite controller is one of the worst when it comes to digital feel of the braking. This was the general comment from folks running normal electric trailer brakes. I wonder if it has more to do with the controller, rather than the conversion.

 

[klenger]

The DrawTite controller is a ramp type unit, which means the longer you have your foot on the brake, the more brake effort is applied to the trailer. After a length of time, the brakes will be applied full force, even if you are only applying light pressure on the brake pedal.



Look into the BrakeSmart controller. It senses brake pedal effort with a hydraulic sensor, and converts that into an electrical signal to the trailer brakes. Everyone who has installed one has been happy with it.



Here are some pics and comments from my installation. http://www.klenger.net/dodge/brakesmart/slide01.html

 

[John - K5AWO]

Originally posted by klenger

Here are some pics and comments from my installation. http://www.klenger.net/dodge/brakesmart/slide01.html

Klenger... . that is one nice looking truck! I am jealous big time



Nice install, and a very good job on the web site. Impressive.

 

[klenger]

tx

 

[FJfonda]

Klenger,

Thank you for the details on Brakesmart. Nice install... Ultimately that looks like the way I will go. I may take an intrium step with a pendulum type controller as it would be a very quick plug and play. 'Tis the season... ... working on the boat takes presidence over working on the truck!!!

Would this be a step in the right direction?? Or am I going backwords ????



ntillm01,

I am looking forward to towing with this conversion. Our Grady is 12,500 lbs with only 870 lbs tounge wt. My "wet road, downhill, off camber corner, gotta stop now" braking experiences were white nuckle affairs. Interesting note... . the surge coupler was a DICO brand which is preset for ball clamping. The wear on the ball in just 3000 miles is unbelievable!! I can only guess it was the constant slamming of coupler during braking operation that greated the wear.

 

[klenger]

FJfonda: It would be cheaper to buy the BrakeSmart first rather than spending $100 on another controller you don't plan to keep, but I'm not in a position to make your financial decisions. Enjoy the toys.

 

[FJfonda]

klenger

You have a point... ... and I'm out of time to make a change for this trip so I'm going to stick it out with the current setup. I definately need to look at the brakesmart controller some more... and find out if it is compatible with my conversion unit. Thanks for the input.....

 

[rweis]

I have been researching this (electric over hydraulic) as well.



One of the main concerns I have run accross is a 2 - 3 second delay in hydraulic actuation while the hydraulic pump builds up the 1600 psi pressures.



It appears, and I would like your input, that BrakeSmart has an ElecDraulic hydraulic controller that applies hydraulic pressure within less than 1 second. BrakeSmart controllers, though pricey, seem to be really good brake controllers. The ElecDraulic hydraulic unit also works in conjunction with the BrakeSmart controller, which is a real plus. The website also mentions an ABS option, but does not really have any information about it.



I have Dexter 8k axles and have to find if the Dexter 8k disc brake retrofit (not floating, but fixed calipers) will fit my axles to provide the disc brake mechanism. Any comments on fixed vs floating calipers? You have to go to a 10k or 12k axle to get the floating caliper for the retrofit disc kit.



All this would work with the BrakeSmart electric brake controller unit, therefore no air over hydraulic or vacuum over hydraulic complications.



Your thoughts, comments, discussion will be VERY appreciated.



Bob Weis

 

[FJfonda]

Bob,



I have no experience on the ElecDraulic unit but my recent experience with the Carlisle Hydrastar unit was not very good. My unit failed, as in no brakes, at 1500 miles. The dealer I purchased it from would not honor the warrantee and Carlisle would not work with me directly. It took me 3 days of run around to get a return authorization, then I had to ship at my expense and wound up without the unit for 6 weeks. They replaced the unit but could not provide any details when I asked for the failure mode. So, I have a replacement unit but am uncertain about using it. Fortunately I kept the surge brake coupler and was able to convert it back so I could use the trailer.

As far as the delay (when operational), if I ran it with the sync turned up (time, or ramp, based controller) the braking was almost instantanous.

Also, we ran across quite a few guys towing large, heavy, fast boats in the Thousand Islands this past summer and almost all those trailers had the Titan BrakeRite conversion units. http://www.titandist.com/pdfs/page15-16.pdf

I am still runniing the drum brakes... so can't help you there.

 

[rweis]

Continued from previous post:



Well, I called Dexter and they said their 8k disc brakes will bolt up to the Dexter 8k axle I have.



Now before the disc conversion I want to install a Brakesmart controller to the existing Dexter electric brakes I have.



Where is the best place / best price to get the Brakesmart controller? Is there a dealer network?, but it directly from Brakesmart?, independent network? What's the best way to purchase get the Brakesmart controller? (I know pay for it, lol )



Bob Weis

 

[jacqnbill]

Continued from previous post:



Well, I called Dexter and they said their 8k disc brakes will bolt up to the Dexter 8k axle I have.



Now before the disc conversion I want to install a Brakesmart controller to the existing Dexter electric brakes I have.



Where is the best place / best price to get the Brakesmart controller? Is there a dealer network?, but it directly from Brakesmart?, independent network? What's the best way to purchase get the Brakesmart controller? (I know pay for it, lol )



Bob Weis

I purchased my Breaksmart directly from the company. I beat all other quotes by $20. 00. Don't remember the link. 1 817-456-8773.



Bill Davis

 

[rweis]

Well, ordered the BrakeSmart controller today. Jacqnbill is exactely right on, best price is at BreakSmart itself. The delay in shipping eluded to on the BrakeSmart web page should be cleared up in about 2 - 4 weeks. Seems a subcomponent made by a subcontractor did not meet reliability testing and the batch of the subcomponent had to be remanufactured.



I also asked about the ElecDraulic for pricing, availability etc. Welllllllll, it is out of production and effectively not available. However, Master Brake System is redesigning it to be even more compatiable with the BrakeSmart controller. Master Brake System would not say when it should be available, but I got the impression of 2 - 6 months.



I'll write more in this thread as I find out more information.



Bob Weis

 

[RustyJC]

I also asked about the ElecDraulic for pricing, availability etc. Welllllllll, it is out of production and effectively not available. However, Master Brake System is redesigning it to be even more compatiable with the BrakeSmart controller. Master Brake System would not say when it should be available, but I got the impression of 2 - 6 months.

Bob,



I've been giving this 2-3 second delay situation some more thought - all a designer needs to do is include an accumulator in their design to provide the regulated pressure to handle the immediate braking requirements until the electric pump gets the system pressure built up. Maybe that's one of the changes we'll see in the newer electric-over-hydraulic systems.



I like the concept of the hydraulic disc brakes on the 5ver - just waiting for the execution to be mastered.



Rusty

 

[rweis]

Rusty,



I feel exactely the same way about disc brakes on heavier trailers. Not only RV, but any heavier trailers over ~ 10,000#.



Same thoughts on the accumulator. I want to see what Master Brake Systems comes up with as a replacement to the ElecDraulic.



The electric hydraulic actuator on the Dexter Axle web site supposedly is a 1 second delay. There is an actuator psi graph burried down in the secondary pages about their disc brakes. There is some additional information on the secondary pages as to why Dexter recommends that particular actuator.



I am going to run the Brake Smart controller for this towing season and see how it acts / reacts.



My ALFA has Dexter 8K axles (2) with self adjusting brakes so they should be as optimum as electric brakes will be when I get the Brake Smart controller installed.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I got some information from Dexter Axles today on their Predator 1600 psi actuator.





The delay for 2 brakes ( 1 axle) is 1. 2 seconds, the delay for 4 brakes (2 axles) is 1. 6 seconds. That is for full 1600 psi pressure application.



Just FYI,



Bob Weis