Electrical problems

[mbpoindexter]

All, I am coming from a different forum trying to get some kind of help for this annoying problem

I am having some trouble with the electrical in my truck. I am a novice when it comes to electrical system so anything will help.

I have listed all codes that I am getting below. However I would like to focus on P0107 and P0073 for now as they are immediately present after I reset all codes. I know the MAP sensor is receiving 5v. Is the Inlet air sensor on the intake filter supposed to be receiving the same 5v? Is it in that 5v circuit? Because it is not receiving any voltage as far as I can tell. I cannot see any obvious wiring harness damage.

Should all sensors be receiving the 5v? Crank position/cam position/ AAPS/ MAP/TPS etc?

Battery terminals are very clean and connections are tight. Grounds to block and chassi seem to be clean and tight.

Anything helps. thanks so much.

P2121 – APPS 1 performance

P1652 – J1850 communication Bus – guage cluster dies

P0107 – MAPS

P0073 – AATS

P2127 – APPS

P2509 – ECM/PCM input signal intermittent

P0541 – Intake air heater control 1

P2149 - Injector group 2

Grounds from driver battery to body, chassi, and block as well as grounds from passenger battery to block and body are clean and tight. Batteries are at 12.7 and 12.8 volts will load test them today. terminals and posts are clean.

Does anyone have any information or can help me with a systematic approach to track down this problem? I rebuilt the whole motor and have brand new injectors in it and I can't take it anywhere. I'm desperate, anything helps.

2005 3500 5.9L 4wd, Stage 0.5 bbi injectors, stock 48RE

Thank you

 

[DavidC]

Probably be nice to know the year. Not that I can help but others may.

 

[mbpoindexter]

Sorry, forgot that I don't have a signature set up here.

2005 3500 5.9L 4wd, Stage 0.5 bbi injectors, stock 48RE

 

[cerberusiam]

P2509 – ECM/PCM input signal intermittent - this could be the cause. There is a large wire going from covered terminal point on the front inboard side of the driver side battery, you have to open the cap to see the connection. That connection can and will corrode cause voltage fluctuations to the ECM. Worst case is it has messed up the ECM to some extent.

The other 2 codes could be a pinched wire some where or the fan has gone bad or alternator. Start by disconnecting peripherals and looking for rubbed\pinched wires on the harness.

 

[mbpoindexter]

P2509 – ECM/PCM input signal intermittent - this could be the cause. There is a large wire going from covered terminal point on the front inboard side of the driver side battery, you have to open the cap to see the connection. That connection can and will corrode cause voltage fluctuations to the ECM. Worst case is it has messed up the ECM to some extent.

The other 2 codes could be a pinched wire some where or the fan has gone bad or alternator. Start by disconnecting peripherals and looking for rubbed\pinched wires on the harness.

Hi Cerb,

The thread I have on the cumminsforum was going much quicker than this so all my updates I have posted there.

Just to give you an idea what I am dealing with now I have attached some pictures. There are under the steering wheel. That pink wire I think should be there however the white wire that splices into the pink goes out into the engine bay as displayed and goes alllll the way down to this old carter lift pump I have.

There is also a yellow wire that has been cut twice and terrible twisted back together as if something used to be there before. I think the yellow is a ground but I just don't know.

Trying to get all this wiring right again as before chasing this P2509, all the usual suspects seemed to check out. Batteries are healthy, all grounds that I can see and crossover cable are tight no corrosion.

Im trying to use the field service manual FSM to get wiring right but its taking a long time for me to find what I need.

 

[cerberusiam]

That is keyed ignition power. A 2005 should have an in-tank pump, no reason to have an external pump like unless the in-tank dies and no one wanted to replace it. Never should tap off that for a fuel pump, I would removed that and go back to the fuse box with it. There is no protection if that pump goes bad or starts drawing too much.

 

[mbpoindexter]

That is keyed ignition power. A 2005 should have an in-tank pump, no reason to have an external pump like unless the in-tank dies and no one wanted to replace it. Never should tap off that for a fuel pump, I would removed that and go back to the fuse box with it. There is no protection if that pump goes bad or starts drawing too much.

Yes,

The plan is now to install an airdog and go through the fuel pump relay that is still intact for the in tank pump. The last guy was too lazy or didnt have the money to drop the tank and do it right I think. So he bypassed the relay by what you see in the pictures. using the ingition switch to also act as a switch for the lift pump.

Do you think if I do this lift pump wiring correctly it could solve the P2509 code? I really hope this is the source of my electrical problems as I can fix this before the weekend.

I'm nervous I will fix this, install a new pump the right way, and still be riddled with electrical issues.

Let me know what you think. Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't know if it will solve all the electrical problems but that is NOT the correct way to wire a fuel pump. The 2509 could be from disconnecting the batteries and it hasn't reset yet. You really need to see what codes will clear and what will come back after clearing.

 

[Tuesdak]

I would verify the voltage to the ECM. IMO a scanner should be able to display it. (Otherwise a voltmeter on the ECM power at the ECM with it plugged in and on.) With the wiring hack it's possible the ignition switch has bad contacts. Thus a voltage drop to the ECM and it quits working right with ghost codes as mentioned above.

Is the in tank fuel pump still in the tank?

 

[mbpoindexter]

I would verify the voltage to the ECM. IMO a scanner should be able to display it. (Otherwise a voltmeter on the ECM power at the ECM with it plugged in and on.) With the wiring hack it's possible the ignition switch has bad contacts. Thus a voltage drop to the ECM and it quits working right with ghost codes as mentioned above.

Is the in tank fuel pump still in the tank?

Tuesdak,

I ordered an airdog to install today/tomorrow so I am currently in the garage draining the fuel tank for the airdog install. I believe the in tank pump is still there and all the wiring is attached to the fuel pump relay, it is just bypassed with this aftermarket carter pump via the pics from above.

I will report back once I have the fuel tank down and can see. But I'm 90% sure it is there. Doesn't make sense they would have this funky wiring if they dropped the tank and removed the in tank pump.

How would I verify voltage to ECM? I only have a INNOVA 3100 j+ scanner, I think its pretty cheap. Do you happen to know which pin I would backprobe for ECM power?

Thanks, will be working on this all day today and tomorrow and can update what I find. Would appreciate any brainstorming, stuff for me to check. I'm annoyed at the countless hours I've put into this thing and getting no return on it.

Thanks again

 

[DavidC]

Going to remove the in tank pump right.

 

[mbpoindexter]

Going to remove the in tank pump right.

Yes assuming it is still there. Will also remove carter pump and install airdog that will arrive today. Will do wiring correctly through relay to make sure that is not causing my weird codes.

 

[mbpoindexter]

Well, unfortunately, the plot thickens.

apparently someone did drop the tank before me as there is no in tank lift pump anymore. And the black and yellow wires have been cut which I guess will save me a couple minutes installing the airdog.

So now, why would someone bypass the relay then? Maybe the relay was bad and they thought it was the lift pump? then it still didnt work so they rigged a relay bypass?

Anyone got any guesses?

 

[DavidC]

On a 2nd gen the ECM runs the engine mounted pump. One mod to do is install a relay and have the ECM energize the relay and run the pump from the battery thru a fuse then to relay and finally the pump. Maybe the ECM was giving problems ?

 

[mbpoindexter]

On a 2nd gen the ECM runs the engine mounted pump. One mod to do is install a relay and have the ECM energize the relay and run the pump from the battery thru a fuse then to relay and finally the pump. Maybe the ECM was giving problems ?

That is how this 2005 is supposed to be run. Pump power comes from battery through a fuse to the relay which is connected to the ECM. That is how I understand it from the diagram in the FSM.

I always read whenever you think the problem is the ECM, its probably not. But I would hate to just guess and buy an ECM to find out it wasn't bad anyway. I don't know how to test the ECM, is there a way to do that? Dealer only charges like $100 for reflash, maybe that would be worth a try first.

 

[DavidC]

Is the relay base still intact ? Or at least the plug or wires ?. If any of those apply you should be able to attach a meter bump the starter and see 12vdc for up to 30 seconds

 

[mbpoindexter]

Is the relay base still intact ? Or at least the plug or wires ?. If any of those apply you should be able to attach a meter bump the starter and see 12vdc for up to 30 seconds

Yes it is still here. Picture attached.

 

[DavidC]

Unless someone knows which colors to check I will look up 2nd gen maybe the same ECM wire colors.

 

[DavidC]

Looks like the yellow (12vdc) AND BLACK (GRND) from the ECM.

 

[mbpoindexter]

Looks like the yellow (12vdc) AND BLACK (GRND) from the ECM.

Yes the yellow and black come from the ECM and the red and black and power and ground for pump