Engine died

[PMalin]

I have a 2001 dodge ram 2500 4wd, have not been driving it much lately and the battery runs down sitting for several days. So, I typically put a charger on it and drive it occasionally. This last time I put a charger on the evening before driving, and the next day found the current draw on the charger about 6 amps. More than typical, and batteries are old and suspected I needed to change them soon. But I got in and it waited for the light to go out and it started right up. I backed out about 20 feet and the engine began lugging a few times and it died.(so later on a following day), I just replaced the batteries, and cranked it over but it wouldnt start. I often find that if cranking with the old weak batteries the engine would crank over but not start. The battery voltage seems to need be up above 10 or so volts I assume for lift and or injection pump to work. So I suspected my batteries were weak and intermittent, like sediment would cause low voltage with g forces of moving forward or backward and cause batteries to pull the volgage low and cause the fuel injection to fail, thus the lugging that occured when moving it. But now it wont start. Could it have lost prime, what should I check?

 

[12valveZach]

probably go ahead and get yourself some new batteries if you're having the charge them every time...I've honestly had the most success with walmart ever starts...however, sounds like you have a fuel delivery issue, if you haven't changed the filter in a while, go ahead and do that for cheap insurance, but sounds like you're pulling air or your lift pump is dying (which is a big deal for the vp44). Get an OEM lift pump and some studs to install when you change it, or go to an electronic lift pump like most 24valvers do.

 

[Jim W]

I would check out the help that is available from TDR articles. Starting with "The Perfect Collections" on the LH side of the forum page. In " The Perfect Collections" there is an article called my truck won't start. This may help you? Also do a search on my truck won't start, you may find information already on this subject for your model year.

Geno’s garage sells parts for your year of truck including an aftermarket fuel transfer pump relocation kit for $102.95. This is on page 33 of their latest catalog, if you need to replace the in tank fuel pump.

 

[Ozymandias]

Fuel pump is behind the fuel filter if it wasn't retrofitted in the past.
And they are well known to fail.
The engine can run without the lift pump but it will kill the VP44 within a short time.

And if the battery's are already dead, one should not wait for the WTS light to go out and instead start the engine immediately, the grid heaters drain the battery's massively.

So my conclusion, get new battery's, Problem solved.

 

[BigPapa]

Get an OEM lift pump and some studs to install when you change it, or go to an electronic lift pump like most 24valvers do.

I think Zach is referring to the 2nd Gen 12-Valve mechanical lift pump when he says OE and studs. The mechanical pump won't work on your '01 since it's driven off an eccentric on the cam that your cam doesn't have.

The original 2nd Gen 24-Valve lift pump is electric and mounts on the side of the engine below the fuel filter as Ozy mentioned, and as he said, it is a known problem on the VP trucks and un-noticed failure will take out your IP. I've always recommended the FASS DDRP for replacement.

 

[PMalin]

I have a 2001 dodge ram 2500 4wd, have not been driving it much lately and the battery runs down sitting for several days. So, I typically put a charger on it and drive it occasionally. This last time I put a charger on the evening before driving, and the next day found the current draw on the charger about 6 amps. More than typical, and batteries are old and suspected I needed to change them soon. But I got in and it waited for the light to go out and it started right up. I backed out about 20 feet and the engine began lugging a few times and it died.(so later on a following day), I just replaced the batteries, and cranked it over but it wouldnt start. I often find that if cranking with the old weak batteries the engine would crank over but not start. The battery voltage seems to need be up above 10 or so volts I assume for lift and or injection pump to work. So I suspected my batteries were weak and intermittent, like sediment would cause low voltage with g forces of moving forward or backward and cause batteries to pull the volgage low and cause the fuel injection to fail, thus the lugging that occured when moving it. But now it wont start. Could it have lost prime, what should I check?

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Reply to posts so far: I had a vulcan lift pump relocation kit for a few years, so now I decided to install it. I finished that task, but while I was in there disassembling the original lift pump, I noticed a couple wires hanging down, and later realized they were supposed to be connected to my lift pump. Rat Chew is what I concluded, but I think it must have happened the previous night, when I was also charging the batteries. Anyway, lift pump relocated now and removed the filter top and bumped the starter and it filled the cannister with fuel, ++. Installed new filter and tightened that down again. Bumped the starter probably 4 more times over about an hour. Then went to start it and it wouldnt start. Now I am thinking I need to bleed the injectors. The lift pump relocation kit, I wish I had installed that earlier, it was a little work but not too bad to install on my own. Does the vp44 have some replacable diaphram that is a low cost goto item before replacing it? And any comments on bleeding the injectors?? Thanks for the replies.

 

[Ozymandias]

Lose the top injection line, it's a 22mm Wrench.
It goes in a second and will start almost right away with that lose.

It is only a little bit more then hand tight.

I had to losen that line every time I worked in the full system of my buddy's 98'.
Otherwise it never started, no matter how often I bumped the fuel pump.

 

[PMalin]

Lose the top injection line, it's a 22mm Wrench.
It goes in a second and will start almost right away with that lose.

It is only a little bit more then hand tight.

I had to losen that line every time I worked in the full system of my buddy's 98'.
Otherwise it never started, no matter how often I bumped the fuel pump.

------------------------- Reply


Would that line your talking about, be at the VP44 or at the injectors where the lines go into the engine. I suppose you mean
at the VP44?? This is a 2001 year model...

Thanks for the reply....

 

[Ozymandias]

At the VP44, it can be reached even if the room is small there.
I just broke it loose and then started the engine. It should start so within 5 seconds or so cranking if the fuel filter bowl and everything else is airless up to the VP44.
I let it run then around 5 seconds with the loose connection to sure bleed all air out, shut it down, tightened the line and it started right up afterwards without a single hiccup.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

I usually crack the injector lines at the injector. It is a lot easier to get to.

 

[PMalin]

OK, I may go try this myself, but thanks for the replies. I will reply again sometime later to report further.

 

[JR]

Cracking it loose at the head (the highest point) is preferable to allow all the air trapped in the lines to escape. My 98 required a 19mm wrench to do this. If there is only a little air in the system you may get away with only cracking one or two loose. The more air in the system the more lines you will have to loosen to bleed the air and get the injectors to pop.

 

[PMalin]

Ok, it's running again. This morning a neighbor came over and helped me bleed the injector lines, and it cranked up without too much trouble. I think he bled most of the lines, not just 1 or 2. I had procrastinated for a few years, and finally put the lift pump relocation kit in a few days ago. So far I am happy with that, I know it has more pressure up in the filter canister, as I lifted the water bleed lever and it squirted hard out of it, never that hard of a squirt before. My truck is a 2001.5 so not one of the newer ones rolling around. It was a little chore, but if you have a truck model with known lift pump issues, I suggest installing that relocation kit as soon as you reasonably can. Mounting to the frame rail was not as straight forward described in the instructions. The kit had many excess parts that may be needed with other models, but the hardware was top notch stuff!! I soldered wires where connections were made, I never trust just a twist connection for reliable operation. It seems you have to choose from a few pump options and order that part separately, for the install. I installed a Carter P4601HP . Thanks for the replies.. Good luck out there..

 

[PMalin]

Just a little followup: I have driven the truck a few times now on short runs. The new pump seems to give me a different startup sound than the older pump, like it fires up without any lag, just a different audible sound difference. Today, I started it and let it idle for maybe 20 seconds before heading out. It had a brief rpm increase like some sort of governor response causing the brief burst in rpm. I suspected an air pocket went through or something, but then went on and drove it and it brought me back home.

 

[PMalin]

OK, a couple days of experience gone by and I found if I let it sit a day or so, it seems to be getting air back in someplace. It died after startup but I just cranked and gave it some throttle (to increase the injection volume "air" ) and it responded and started up and smoothed out pretty quick. So, a minor air bleed was necessary but I did it pumping the throttle and cranking. Let off as soon as she started hitting.

 

[Joe Mc]

Check fuel lines on top of tank module. Inspection mirror and flash light, squeeze yourself in between the driveshaft and tank. On mine, probably 15-16 years back, I found the steel feed supply line to the system, has a 90° bend coming out of module, was rusty at the bend and moist. A little bit of scraping revealed a pin hole, just enough to allow loss of prime after sitting a day. I installed the Vulcan Draw Straw (Geno's Garage) and never had another prime loss issue. Should you find same situation, run fuel as low as possible, drop it and follow instructions. Tip: until you find loss of prime reason, if it doesn't start jog key to start position this will run lift/pusher pump 25-30 seconds or so, do the jog to start a few more times, when you're ready to try and start hold the go pedal to the floor as you crank it. When/if it starts let off the pedal. It may not start at first, but do not crank for more than 25-30 seconds then wait a minute to allow wire and starter to cool, jog starter and after pump stops try again. I had to do this sometimes 3-5 times before it would fire, spitter and sputter a few seconds than whoom off the pedal and settled in at idle. Keep us posted. Good luck
Forgot to ask, I saw no mention of a feed pressure gauge, so I'll just say "if you don't have on get one". Probably "the" most important one you should have with 2nd gen 24v to help reduce potential for loosing a VP. Note: I've had gauges (FP, Trans & combo EGT/Boost) since 3 months post purchase of my truck in 05/01 and I just did 3rd VP (including one when purchased truck) this past Feb/Mar....

 

[PMalin]

I have the lift pump relocation kit installed, (earlier details already made) and completed an install of the MaxTow 30 psi fuel pressure Gauge today (awesome gauge!!) . When I bump the starter and allow the fuel pump to run 20 or so seconds, my fuel pressure is 10 psi. After startup, while idling it is 8 to 9 psi. At 70mph it is 7 psi. At standard acceleration it drops to 6 psi and hard acceleration down to 5 psi. I used the snubber MT-FA-SV-01 and connected it to a grease gun hose that comes from a banjo bolt at the Injector Pump from an earlier westech install that had long since went kaput. So, I just used the existing connection, made it easier. The snubber worked out good with the grease gun hose. I plan on installing a checkvalve and am concerned to see if these pressure readings will drop. The checkvalve I bought is hard to blow through in the direction it is supposed to flow freely. Another note, the standard lift pump that I removed, I picked up and blew into the "in" port and air flowed through freely, then turned it around and blew into the "out" port and I could feel something in there latch up and became highly restrictive to any backflow, so I conclude the factory pumps have a checkvalve built in/installed. So I guess I need to add a checkvalve to this Carter configuration I have now..?? Will report more later.

 

[Joe Mc]

Not sure if you are running stock or have any power modifications. Either way from what I recall reading here (and I believe in the FSM?) feed pressures less than 10# are not good for the life of the VP. I also read here the VP doesn't like more than 22.5# head (feed) pressure. I set my regulator at 20# and checked accuracy to the in-cab gauge with a mechanical gauge, spot on. With my Edge set at kill and wide open throttle I've never seen less than 18#. Most folks run around 16#.

 

[petersonj]

The checkvalve I bought is hard to blow through in the direction it is supposed to flow freely.

In my opinion you do not need to add a check valve - especially a check valve that has a noticeable restriction in the free flow direction. To my knowledge, all lift pumps already have a built in check valve, otherwise fuel could drain back to the tank when the engine is shut off.

If there is a leak in the fuel system between the tank suction inlet and the lift pump inlet, then air can enter the fuel system while the engine is shut off. Remember, fuel may not leak out, but air can leak in. If a leak is minor, it can be hard to track down.

- John

 

[PMalin]

I was thinking that this carter pump should provide plenty of pressure, and typically calls for a pressure regulator. However folks have been saying the VP44 functions as the presssure regulator, so no need of that additional workup. So, the thing is my pressure may be more a result of my VP44 (overflow/return spring) or whatever it is that regulates the pressure, being the reason I do not see a higher pressure than this???