Engine still knocking/hammering

[dieselburner]

I just got back my blackstone report and all of the wear numbers are less than average in the report (thanks radix for posting the averages). I sent the oil sample in because I thought that something was coming apart in the engine because of all of the noise the thing makes. The hammering started not long after I went through the latest upgrades that I made which included 370 injectors, increasing timing to 15. 5 degrees, 60 pound valve springs, and governor spring kit. It hammers audibly when on a hard pull and I can hear it real loud at idle if I engage the exhaust brake at idle and listen on the passenger wheel well. Can't hear it at all on top of the engine or on the drivers side wheel well. Anybody have any ideas? Another thing that I just noticed, blow by goes up a bit when I set the exhaust brake.

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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake

[This message has been edited by dieselburner (edited 01-13-2001). ]

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

Set the timing back to specs.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I agree with Boldt, the timing is too advanced! Adding bigger injectors effectively advances timing, so I would think if anything, retard the timing a little. The boxes for the 24-valve Cummins only advance timing to about 4-5 deg BTDC.
Too much advancement is hard on engine internals #ad


Vaughn

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Dieselburner,

My bet is you have an exhaust leak. Probably near the head. Maybe a gasket blew out of your ATS manifold. Check for sooting around the exhaust manifold flanges & pac brake. Check to see if you are getting a leak at ATS slip fit connections. Check the turbo exhaust housing too.

Try applying your exhaust brake @ idle, and check for leaks.

It made my think of a header leak at the head on a gasser. You get a loud snap when that cylinder fires.


Dieselburner, How is your Centerforce Clutch holding up? I'm going to need a clutch soon.


Let us know what you find

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Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.



[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 01-13-2001). ]

 

[DieselB59]

Nozzles advance the timing? Is this something I have not experienced in my years of diesel injection service? The truth to all this is that with all the fuel that the 370 nozzles flow, you will need to advance the timing a bit just to get a better performance edge and to eliminate the hazing that the bigger nozzles produce. 15. 5 degrees BTDC is optimal for the 12 valve engine for performance. Cylinder pressure is not exceedingly high, because if it were the engine would begin to not allow boost as was the problem with the A. W. D. racer when we advanced the timing into the upper 20s. I agree with the exhaust leak hypothesis, as this is an ongoing problem with the B series which begins with an easily fixed gasket problem and can get as bad as a cracked head. The ATS 3 piece manifold eliminates the problem altogether and emulates that found on the Class 8 truck engines. Advanced timing, however, does cause a little more clatter, but the problem you describe appears to be an exhaust leak.

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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Rhino Linings, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.
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Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission.

 

[Steve Campbell]

Vaughn, how did you find out the 24 valve boxes increase the timing to 4 or 5 degrees. I asked a lot of people and found that it was a big secret. Thanks

 

[dieselburner]

Thanks for the replies. I checked the exhaust before and found a small leak between the manifold and turbo housing that had some sooting. I don't think that is where the noise is coming from but I will go over it again today. Are there any aftermarket gaskets that work better than the stock exhaust gaskets? Maybe there is a sealant that should be used? I put the new metal gaskets in dry when I changed out the manifold to a ATS.
On the Centerforce Clutch - I have not had any problems with the clutch. I installed it long before I went to the 370 injectors. At that time I still had the hot plate but I broke it in easy. I pull my fifth wheel with this setup now at 22,000 GCW and there is no slippage at all. The plate is pushed back . 050" to help exhaust temperatures, I haven't tried it pushed forward with the new injectors.

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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake

 

[DieselB59]

I have not had anything good to say about the Centerforce clutch. I spun it within a year of the installation, and the Centerforce warranty people said "If the engine is modified to provide more power, then the clutch warranty is voided". I tossed out that clutch and moved on to a ceramic one and then to a McLeod dual disk clutch, which is still the king of holding all 600+ hp I could dish out.

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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Rhino Linings, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.
*******************************************************************************
Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission.

 

[dieselburner]

That sucks. When I talked to them, I told them that the truck was modified and that I was looking for a performance clutch that would hold. They told me that their clutch would hold 800 foot pounds torque to the ground and approximately 1000 foot pounds flywheel. I know that there are plenty of guys out there now that are over these numbers. I suppose that if I keep turning up mine, I'll be there too but that's the price you pay when you play. Maybe I'll need a new clutch too if I put in those delivery valves that you were talking about. Is there a particular set of valves that seem to work best?
Steve

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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake

 

[R.ebel]

dieselburner, I'm curious about your TST#4 plate. What is the HP and torque rating for it? TIA

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1997 2500 Ext Cab 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pac brake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce clutch,K&N airfilter,Missing
Cat,Isspro gauges,TST #11 plate (280hp/680tq),AFC medium spring and Jardine 4" exh.

 

[dieselburner]

The #4 plate did not come with any rating. When I talked to Mark at TST about it he basically told me that it was experimental but he was running it in his truck to evaluate. It does has noticeably more torque than the #5 plate which I traded back to Mark #ad
#ad


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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake

 

[dieselburner]

Thanks to a e-mail from DBR which confirmed my suspicion, I believe that I have fixed the knocking problem. Ever since I installed the 370HP injectors a couple of them have been weeping. I found a crows foot wrench yesterday and tightened them all up. DBR e-mailed me tonight and told me that he had the same problem which caused a knock in his engine. I just verified tonight that the knock is gone. If anyone out there has a knock, check your injectors. The leak on mine was extremely small. Thanks DBR.

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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake