Engineer's Alert on the use of Exhaust Brakes

[Doc Tinker]

http://www.usgear.com/alert.htm

 

[KPancake]

I'll take my chances with my Jacobs E-Brake. The reason i say this is that i believe that ALL exhaust brakes are built with durability and dependibility in mind. I don't own a US Gear D-celerator, but I am sure it is a good product as well. If I remember correctly, I think Cummins reccomends the Jacobs E-brake to consumers because of how well it matches up with the cummins.

Chris

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2001. 5 2500,QC,4x4,ETH/DEE,Dk. Garnet Red,Agate,E-Brake w/shifter switch,silencer ring AWOL,every option but leather. 1200 miles as of 3/8/00

 

[QRTRHRS]

I believe Blue Ox has been around quite some time so the concept is hardly new. Of course this man being an engineer knows all. I don't think this will keep me awake tonight.

 

[dabubba]

I deal with mechanical engineers quit often- hell they can't even agree on anything- #ad
Okay his bottom line is that the turbo mounted e-brakes create more static back pressure, and a little higher temps than an e-brake mounted where he suggests. Sounds like a tree hugger wanting the government to buy more land to save the butt fart butterfly, or that eating tomatos will kill you--- Everyone who eats tomatos dies----- #ad
the sky is falling #ad
#ad

 

[LSMITH]

Cummins recommends a turbo mounted E-brake, that is good enough for me.

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99 2500 QC 4X4 AUTO SB 24V LARAMIE SLT 3. 5 LSD 285-75-16'S SPA Boost/EGT Everything but leather NRA Member Great Lakes TDR Member

 

[DocStressor]

Has anyone noticed an increase in EGT after installing an e-brake? This information will either support of refute the guy's idea.

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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags

 

[Bill Stockard]

You have to take into consideration where this guy gets his pay check. I have seen this argument before. I think the guy exaggerates the amount of restriction in the exhaust stream to make a sales feature out of his product(U S Gear Decelerator). There's nothing wrong with their product so I don't think he needs to be throwing out this stuff for a sales feature. PacBrake, B-D, and Cummins/Jacobs can't all be wrong.

My $0. 02

Bill

 

[R.E. Miller]

Mr. Stockard,
I feel the same way, the back pressure argument is similar to one I heard earlier about porting a polishing the head on turbo diesels. The amount of restriction that is lost from polishing and a little porting is almost irrelevent because it is turbocharged. There is a compressor forcing the air in, for the extra cost of the port/polish the HP gain is tiny (note: racing justifiys this). Anyway he is probably on to something is you plan to use your truck for it's FULL service life, but these days few people do.

 

[Power Wagon]

YO! Mr Engineer, argue with the engineers over at Navistar, who put that butterfly in EVERY T444E engine they make. . Gazillions. Oh, wait, engineers that work for engine manufacturers don't know anything... ???

He may be right to some degree in theory. In reality, the effects may be so small as to be without merit.



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ICQ 3807791 Power Wagon
www.my2kcity.com/powerwagon
Mark Koskenmaki, General Diesel Moderator

 

[PHaller]

You always see this article packaged with the US Gears decellerator because it is the only brake that has to cut the exhaust system to install way down under the floorboards, expensive and destructive, and uses an electrical solonoid that uses mucho current to acctivate the brake that is subject to corrosion from road salt. You see, all other manufacturers use vacuum and mount the brake at the easily accesable elbo location. It's called, how do you spin the press release to make your products shortcommings sound good?
-Paul R. Haller-

 

[FAB]

Where did this guy come from???!!! Quote "if for any reason the system looses vacuum (hose comes loose, belt failure,leak in canister) no only does the exhaust brake not function properly, you've lost the needed assist for the hydraulic brakes as well". Who/what still uses a belt to power hydraulic brake pumps or vacuum pumps?? My '97 and '01 both have GEAR driven pumps. Also he insinuates that EGT's get so hot that you can actually see through the turbo charger exhaust housing. HUH???????
This guy get's an A+ in the misleading BS department. LOL Sounds like a pant load to me, boys.

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2001. 5 2500 ETH SLT QC SB 3. 54 Hd 241 Camper, tow,

 

[JyRO]

I agree with you guys. Plus I've heard that in most (if not all) of the turbo mounted e-brakes, that in the area of the butterfly the total diameter is enlarged in order to make up for the lost area of the butterfly. So that in itself would minimize or eliminate the, "bottle-neck. " Seems like BS hype to me. I've never heard too much complaint at all about these turbo mounted e-brakes. Plus like one guy said, Cummins recommends the Jacobs. I think I'll stick with Cummins on this, as well as you guys opinions.

- JyRO

 

[amsoilman]

Well, I read the engineers comments about adding the exhaust brake "down stream" rather than at the turbo. I don't go along with his theory! The reason for sayng this is the fact that I have had a BD exhaust brake on my 94 Ram for nearly its entire life. It now has over 130,000 miles and I have never had a problem in any way with the BD exhaust brake located on the turbo.

I also know prior to installing the BD exhaust brake I had already installed an EGT gauge at the elbo off the turbo. The running temperature before and after the installation of the exhaust brake was not measurable by my gauge.

I feel I have had great success with the BD brake, and it has deffinately reduced the wear rates of the service brakes!

Wayne

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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.
Wayne Owen

 

[Paul]

I guess US Gear is not selling enough of their brakes, time to do some story telling.

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Paul A. Schmidt
95, 4X4, SLT 2500, 5 spd. , 4. 10, 270 hp. ,675ft. lb. TST, AFC spring kit,215hp. injectors,16cm2 turbo housing, Pacbrake, Walker muffler,
GearVendor O. D. , CenterForce Dual Friction clutch.
Eastern PA.

 

[illflem]

They've been telling that story for quite some time,I remember reading it when I looked for a e-brake in '95. Bought a B-D instead,story didn't work on me.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(work truck)
95 3500,5 speed 3:54,BD E-brake,Driftwood,Banks&Psycotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(works harder truck)

 

[rhoads]

Scaned the main topic and read a few of the replies. They all work. and if you are pulling a trailer and the brakes on said unit fail you will kiss that add-on when red hot. Been there done that...
Having used Blue ox. I would prefer a TRUE jake brake(Oil hyd/elec solenoid over ride ontop of the exh valves/rockers). BIG
RIG's BUT the down said a pain in the neck to run the rack(adj. valves & inj. )ADD hrs.
As to the 5. 9 cummins common sense tells you the farther away you can install the potato(butterfly)the better /less heat to turbo-valve build up there is. as in blue ox/u. s. gear approch one would think it would be better than the turbo mounted jake/cummins
and if you check back neather offered one before U. S. gear jake had to catch up and cummnis is just about the same(patent lic agrement)which $$ do you think cummins will recomnd??
What i can say for my use(high) i am supprised at the lack of re-adjustment of
valves needed. Lack of oil usage-and still OE turbo?????? Cost and ease of instalation guieded my choice+++ in the case of a failure/trade off easer to remove/transfer.

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96-3500 SLT EXT. CAB AM/FM/CD-RINO LINER. D-CELERATOR EXH. BRK-RED LINE VAC. OVER HYD BRK CONTROL- AIR BAGS W/HVY DUTY AIR COMP. PUTCO S/STEEL DEEPBOARDS FRONT TO REAR. REESE 20K 5TH WHEEL & GOOSE -REESE 20K HITCH BELOW W/17K RECEVER. CLEAR COATED & SOUND DEADINGING &UNDER COATED 5 SPD/W 4:10 MCHLN'S 235/16'S UNIDEN PC76/WEATHER-WILSON 1000 MAG MOUNT ANT. 4 WHL ANTI LOC BRK SYS.
750,000 miles

 

[rhoads]

Forgot one thing--none of the mfg. include a cut out switch for the clutch when it is depressed. . only one for the throttle. How did all three miss that one. Easy to obtain and install in line.

 

[R.E. Miller]

Another dumb thought, until International comes out with it's cam-less engine, you cannot get one with a jake. HMMMM, what can you get, oh yeah a turbine mounted exhaust brake from the factory.

And to top it off I looked a Mitsubishi Fuso's trucks and they all come stock from the factory with turbine mounted brakes... . #ad

 

[DocStressor]

Thanks Wayne. Once again, facts refute the marketing bluster.

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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags

 

[Bill Stockard]

Some of you old timers may remember that the first B-D exhaust brakes were down under the truck like the US Gear, but early on they moved them up on the turbo. Why?

I would imagine it was for a much easier install, and to a greater extent, to get the brake in a much cleaner enviornment.

Bill