EPA FCA Investigation

[retirednak]

I was thinking of picking up a new pickup and saw a short news story about the EPA investigation into FCA.... I found the info on the one america news site

Regulators said FCA failed to disclose engine management software in 104,000 U.S. 2014-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks with 3.0-liter diesel engines. The undisclosed software results in increased emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx). EPA is still investigating if the software constitutes a “defeat device.”

Has anyone else heard anything about this? I'd rather not deal with a headache or deal with the BS. I thought the bugs were worked out with the 3.0 liter. I will be keeping my '03 for the heavy stuff.

 

[BHaden]

1500 diesel emmisions

Yep, just heard about it. That's why I logged in. I don't know any more than you. I have a 2015 with 17-18,000 miles. Best vehicle I ever owned. I'll keep watching

 

[Miller]

Myself too logged on to see what the word is,Just received my check in the mail last Friday from V.W. Man i can't win 0 - 2 in vehicle choices in the past few years, I hope not,like the Ram…..

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks USEPA.

 

[TCDiesel]

The 3.0 been problematic for some, Lots of QC issues, SCR ,rotating mass failures, Etc, it was a hero or zero buy. It doesn't look good for 3.0. Fords new F-150 power plant has passed 2017 so it will be hitting the pavement end of year 2017. great opportunity For Ram to grab the market just evaporated.

 

[brods]

Myself too logged on to see what the word is,Just received my check in the mail last Friday from V.W. Man i can't win 0 - 2 in vehicle choices in the past few years, I hope not,like the Ram…..

Sounds like you are 2-0. On the VW you got a good vehicle and cash back for nothing. How did you lose? Your Ram will probably just need a flash and might drop some mpg. Would couple of mpg difference have changed your original purchase decision?


https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-01/documents/fca-caa-nov-2017-01-12.pdf

Cliff notes: eight pieces of software not disclosed to regulators that allows increased NOx pollution which do not appear to have valid reasons (like protecting the engine, etc).

Considering FCA and the EPA have been in communication for quite a while over this I assume the notice of violation means FCA did not provide satisfactory proof that these softwares do not constitute defeat devices.
Since it is an Italian motor it would be interesting to know if it was the Italians who wrote the software and if they had the defeating...um..."work around" mindset other European manufacturers have.

 

[Tinman]

There is a long and informative thread over at the ram 1500 ED forum. Basically, this is all about the disclosure of FCA's AECDs on the ED from 2014 to current. AECDs are Axillary Emissions Control Device, which in this case is all about the programming of the EGR-SCR/UREA. The AECDs are operating parameters when the EGR/SCR is operating at reduced or no function because it would be harmful to the engine. The EPA allows these by their own rules. Usually, this involves a cold engine. (For instance, the EGR and SCR are completely off when the urea is a frozen block of ice in cold temps. It turns back on when the urea thaws from the tank heater. There are many other parameters.) All manufacturers have AECDs. It looks like 8 of these were not properly disclosed to the epa by FCA. I can't tell if the EPA's rub is b/o not meeting actual emissions standards (like I said there are operating parameters that all engines have where the systems are allowed to not function fully) or is this is just a paper issue of non-disclosure, or both. Either way, I think a software flash will be the most likely fix but it will be a long time before ED role off the line. We've had a Grand Cherokee on order since August.

 

[RustyJC]

Perhaps in 6 days the EPA will be more reasonable in dealing with the manufacturers on issues such as this. It may take some time for the purge to reach the bowels of the EPA bureaucracy - we'll see.

Rusty

 

[TCDiesel]

There is a long and informative thread over at the ram 1500 ED forum. Basically, this is all about the disclosure of FCA's AECDs on the ED from 2014 to current. AECDs are Axillary Emissions Control Device, which in this case is all about the programming of the EGR-SCR/UREA. The AECDs are operating parameters when the EGR/SCR is operating at reduced or no function because it would be harmful to the engine. The EPA allows these by their own rules. Usually, this involves a cold engine. (For instance, the EGR and SCR are completely off when the urea is a frozen block of ice in cold temps. It turns back on when the urea thaws from the tank heater. There are many other parameters.) All manufacturers have AECDs. It looks like 8 of these were not properly disclosed to the epa by FCA. I can't tell if the EPA's rub is b/o not meeting actual emissions standards (like I said there are operating parameters that all engines have where the systems are allowed to not function fully) or is this is just a paper issue of non-disclosure, or both. Either way, I think a software flash will be the most likely fix but it will be a long time before ED role off the line. We've had a Grand Cherokee on order since August.

That forum is so Bias its pathetic , I ask to delete My membership BC I got sick of 1 of there Mods 97hmcs that constantly promoted his own BS, he sold his ED bought a Cummins ,but kept his Mod attitude, So he just banned Me (Instead of Deleting My membership), So if you have any intentions of joining don't expect to disagree with any of his worthless BS.
Its not likely any flash will meet the standard, Small displacement diesels make huge amounts of NOx . they have been trying to get 2013-16 to meet the cert for the last 14 months, If they had the fix it would have been implemented in 2017 and recall all 2013-16.
Ford spent 500 million in its small displacement Diesel production and another 100-300 million in development.

Trumps administration is certainly NOT going to exonerate any corporation from pass violation on EPA and Gov requirements. They will/May focus on lessening future requirements. As this unfolds FCA will sink deeper into trouble.

 

[RustyJC]

Trumps administration is certainly NOT going to exonerate any corporation from pass violation on EPA and Gov requirements. They will/May focus on lessening future requirements. As this unfolds FCA will sink deeper into trouble.

If the intent was malicious and designed to cheat the EPA requirements in normal operation (see VW), then probably not. If, on the other hand, it was a legitimate paperwork SNAFU in that valid AECDs were not filed, I suspect you'll see a much more reasonable resolution from an EPA that's not anti-business, anti-hydrocarbons and anti-diesel vehicles.

At this point, neither of us knows what will happen - we can only speculate. I find FCA's response interesting in that they express a desire to resolve this with the INCOMING administration. Time will tell.

Rusty

 

[TCDiesel]

The EPA has guideline that are NOT that hard to follow , its the standard or CERT that is.

That word speculate is So miss use in this generation, It used all the Blooming time at 1500diesel.com....Let see I smell a sunk and Because I don't see one I must be )(**) wrong .. This generation uses speculating to cover up just about every wrongness or demoralized act under the sun. Don't call someone on speculating when You have 0 freedom of speech or any factual evidence to the contrary, Nothing wrong with questioning someone's speculating but call them out or a lair is to Far...

If someone is pointing a gun at you what are you going to do? speculate on intentions? I will warn you in advance Point a gun at Me be prepare to take on fire, I will speculate on the intentions later.

 

[TCDiesel]

I didn't read that the EPA was expressing any desire resolved the matter that been going on for Months. FCA burn up that desire with the EPA , and the NVFEL not going to change it directions anytime soon, The trump Admin has decades of misguided standards and a large % of demoralized citizens expecting the Admin to change years of digressions and Gov tid sucking NOT going to happen in days it will take years.

 

[RustyJC]

Deleted post.

 

[TCDiesel]

RustyJC.

Over at the Diesel1500.com 18 Months before FCA changed the oil SPEC I recommended T-6 oil for the ED ...When the change happen the Mods gave GDE Go Death Environment the credit, Months before any evidence of why the 3.0 were puking I pointed to rotating mass QC problems, Months before the EPA announcements I stated owner may need to be prepare for returning their ED, Months before the cut-off date I stated the 2017 3.0 Was in trouble and they may NOT be a 2017 ED.... All this speculation became true... and what did the the mods do at the 1500diesel.com do ...More denial... Heck they were promoting new owners to Buy GDE Tunes...like it was the best thing since sliced bread.... Only 1 Mod was honorable over their Crash. My guess Crash will be buying Cummins and he will throw that place to the side..I consider it a snake pit now and it was just a waste to join..... Many members PM or email me Thanks for the help, BC they did not want to post in the forum, and Most said I have forgot more then all the Mods knowledge put together.

No harm taken RustyJC and I welcome your comments.

 

[Miller]

Time will tell…..

 

[DonFitzwater]

Maybe Trump and the new head of the EPA will pull the teeth from that snarling head....

 

[Wayne M.]

We can only hope.

 

[4570]

Has any one on here signed up with Hagens Berman law firm or any other or will it be best to just wait . Sounds like the VW owners are getting some really good buy back offers and or payments and keeping the car .

 

[TCDiesel]

I'm going to wait.. I fight My own battles ... Why would I want to join any wingnut firm.

 

[sag2]

The firm is just doing it for themselves. The settlements will already be set and agreed to by the court so there should be no reason to hire additional council. Even if you do they will most likely benefit considerably more than you from any additional settlement.
Besides that, getting a little ahead of yourself as you don't even know what your damages are if any.