Evaluation of Rig for Full-Time

[RUSSELL5000]

We got some discussion going on an older motorhome in which to full-time. It became apparent that there are many things to consider. I have begin work on listing out considerations. I think there is a long, long way to go, but the attached should give an idea of where I am heading. I am sure we will have lots of discussion when it comes to evaluating these criteria.

It is pretty clear that a truck and trailer are initial cost winners. In terms of cost, I want to consider all likely costs over a ten-year period. So, initial costs is only part of the story.

 

[Terry Jay]

Some Links you may find helpfull

http://dmbruss.com/ Full timers with an informative web site. I believe they went from a 5th to a DP.


http://www.jackdanmayer.com/ More good information. He prefers a Class 7 Volvo and a New Horizons 5th wheel


http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?act=idx The forum for Escapees. Lots of full timers.

Good luck and have fun.
Terry

 

[mwilson]

A full-time couple came in tonight. They have a 5500 Ram with a tri-axle fiver. Made a little conversation with them tonight and will be talking with them more tomorrow. Will ask why they went with that combo versus a motorhome. They seemed to have really done some research as far as what they bought.

 

[Cummins12V98]

NewHorizons are VERY heavy!!!

 

[mwilson]

It looked really heavy ...

 

[RUSSELL5000]

First, thanks to Terry Jay for the links. The Escapees forum is interesting - have spent several hours reading already.

New Horizons: heavy and large certainly describes! I thought Mobile Suites was the heavyweight, but New Horizons appears to be very heavy. Their website shows that the shortest fifth wheel they make is just shy of 37 feet and then going on out to 46 feet or so. I notice a number of the folks on the Escapees forum have New Horizons fifth wheels which they tow with HD class tractors. Apparently there is a whole cottage industry in converting used HD tractor trucks into RV towing rigs. The argument for the converted HD tractor is: more than enough power to go and far more power to stop; comfortable ride; fuel economy is as good as smaller trucks when towing; cost when purchased used is highly competitive; since truck originally intended to run for a million miles, purchasing with 300K to 400K miles means the truck will outlive the purchaser when used for full-time RV. I don't know enough to assess the accuracy of all of that, but there are some true believers.

It occurs to me there is such a thing as too many choices. There is a very wide variety of how people approach the whole RV thing. Thus, I think the first thing one needs to do is decide what type of travel you envision. My greatest desire is to go to the places that I can get close to nature; hence, I think of state parks, county parks, national forest, national park. There is a large variety, but I think I'd like to stay in the 34 ft to 36 ft range (motorhome or fifth wheel). That narrows the scope just a little, although there are still multiple options.

Good thing I have years - looks like it will take that long to absorb all the information!

Looking forward to hearing more.

 

[Terry Jay]

Russell
Look at the Bruss link, they downsized to get to smaller places. My experience is in the West and Alaska, and many Forest and Park and State spots won't take much more then a truck camper. I saw a creative solution the other day in Soldotna, AK, a 20+ year old Prevost conversion towing a 3/4T truck with camper.

The thing about the HD truck idea is to get one a bit older with most of the depreciation wrung out of it, and re-purpose it for the RV market, where something under 20,000 miles a year is normal. The same thing applies to quality upper tier trailers and motorhomes. I am currently looking at units 15+ years old with usually under 100,000 miles, sold new for $500,000+ and are now around $100,000 and if you go back another 10 years are still selling for $50,000 or more. This seems to work for motorhomes, trailers and HD trucks, but not so much for our trucks. The nice thing about the upper tier units is that they can be remodeled to suit your taste, as long as they remain structurally sound.

 

[Jim W]

Russell;
I was in Traverse City, MI. last week on one of our four trips to MI. this year with the camper. Next to me was a gentleman and his wife who pulled in with a Newmar motor home; really sharp coach. I notice that one of his brake lights was out, so after he was set up and sitting in his chair relaxing. I walked over and informed him that one of his brake lights was out on the coach and which one.

Later he came by and thank me for telling him his brake light was out and in conversation he stated if he had to do it all over again he would go with a high end 5er and truck. My wife asked why? He said less maintenance and lower cost on parts for repair, plus the truck could be used as a daily driver. The brake light assembly that needed to be replace was a $239 part, instead he bought three bulbs and sockets for the bulbs and rewired them into the coaches wiring harness using silicone to hold them into the lamp assembly.

 

[donnandon]

Taking the cost question away, I think the rule of thumb is if you like driving a car you will buy a MH and tow a car. If you like your truck, then you will buy a 5th wheel or TT.

I think the maintenance cost for a MH will be more just because you are maintaining a second engine. We looked at a high end MH at a recent RV show. They had the engine bay open so you could see the rather large diesel engine. It had 4...I repeat 4... alternators on it!!!!!

 

[RUSSELL5000]

This motorhome versus truck&fifth wheel is hard to decipher. There are many tradeoffs. Yes, I did notice the couple who downsized to get into places more easily. That poster had a nice long of his annual travels over the years.

Cost is, of course, not just purchase price but repairs, maintenance, remodeling, and fuel. Going to take me some time to map out.

I was looking at the New Horizons website and they had some older trailers for sale in the 34 ft length. Seem like very good trailer.

I have never driven a motorhome - maybe I need to figure out a way to see.if I like. I know I like truck/trailer.

Appreciate all the input.

 

[Terry Jay]

Here is a Teton 5th, Volvo truck and smart car for $85,000
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=122001

There are some opportunities in the used market for quality units.

 

[JDean]

I've towed a 5th wheel for six years. I love the life style and I love my truck (we started with a used 07 Ram and now own a 14 we bought new). For us it works, but a good friend of mine has a Tiffin motor home and tows a car. I asked him why they went that way and he said it was because his wife likes to be able to get up and pee while they're traveling. Good point. We start every move like we start every day: with a pot of coffee. That means 20 minutes on the road and we're looking for a place to pull over. I still wouldn't do it differently, and it's nice to be able to use almost any exit for a rest stop but I can see it would be easier to have a motor home if your partner had a smaller bladder than you did. Either way, you can't lose. - John D

 

[Dutch & Di]

I can only post our experience. We bought a brand new 1996 single cab ram dually to pull our brand new 1996 38' triple slide Carriage. For us there was more room in our RV vs MH, I liked always being behind the wheel of the same vehicle and when parked, we get out of the truck and walked into our home. We have so much interior room with the deep slides over what the MH offered back then and I have everything in our RV that I had in our sticks & bricks home. The cost of the RV was less and the fuel mileage was much better for a MH. We don't stay in one spot for long so we're always on the road exploring whether hooked up or unhooked.
We put 341,700 miles on our 96 before deciding it was time to get a new one and we now tow the same RV {after a full body paint upgrade and a freshened up the interior} We have been fulltime in our Carriage for 19 years and 8 months and still love it. You can see the before and after pictures http://www.plugitright.com/5thwheelREDO.html. We have a nice comfortable truck to explore in but if you feel a MH works best for you then go for it. It you have any questions, I'm sure anyone on the forum will be happy to give you opinions. As far as taking a potty break or making lunch while going down the road, etc. We liked the advice of a salesman when we were 1st looking. He looked at me and said "What's your hurry?" Why not stop in a rest area or by a stream, have lunch & take a walk. We liked that comment and he was right. If one of us has to really, really go, we just pull of on the shoulder or at an exit, open the door & go {heating up our coffee while we're at **** and get back on the road. Good Luck & let us know what you decide. Hugs, Di

 

[surfbeetle]

My wife and I have pondered this as well. We have three daughters under age of 15. We are on the fourth trailer and second truck in just over 20 years. Now that the kids are older, I wished we had a MH because I hate waiting for them to get ready before we can all pile into the truck and take off. Then there's "I have to go to the bathroom" or "I'm hungry"... I wouldn't have to stop as much if they could just go back and use the bathroom or get food from the kitchen. If you don't have kids traveling with you, then it's a non issue. Cost wise, it seems to me that the truck and trailer is cheaper than motorhome and towed car due to multiple engines, insurance and registration. There definitely other issues to consider besides just cost.

 

[MLee]

Depends on what suites you and your budget. Mine is 5ver and truck for eight years, TT before that for nineteen years and before. Neighbor, 5ver,MH, 5ver, MH, 5ver, MH, 5ver. Figures that this will be the last one ???? but I question that, They change RV's like you change your shirt. Sad thing is the rigs very seldom leave the yard.
Also the combo rigs get better MPG than the MH--6 to 8 mpg versus the Truck and 5vers 10-14, in most cases.

 

[Killgore]

Russell, I've always heard that 35' was about the limit for many of the national and state parks, although that didn't stop me from buying a 37' camper.That being said, the maneuverability of a fifth-wheel seems to me to be easier than a MH. I have never driven a MH but I am quite comfortable putting a fifth-wheel in a tight place. My truck is my daily driver and I also feel very comfortable having it when I get to where ever instead of trying to fold my big, round body into a tin-can toad, LOL.

- Ed

 

[mwilson]

A full-time couple came in tonight. They have a 5500 Ram with a tri-axle fiver. Made a little conversation with them tonight and will be talking with them more tomorrow. Will ask why they went with that combo versus a motorhome. They seemed to have really done some research as far as what they bought.

View attachment 96389

Well, they only came out of the trailer twice in three days.......WTH....

But talked to a very nice couple with a new Tiffen motorhome, an Allegro Red I believe. On a Freightliner chassis.

They had made some good decisions by going with floor tiles instead of carpet and a residential Whirlpool fridge with inverter. Good for 12 hours on the batteries. He was more comfortable driving the coach and towing his Jeep as opposed to a fiver. Claimed 10 mpg. He liked the food and bathroom on the go features but as I pictured it in my mind with slides in I don't think that the fridge could be opened. Bathroom would be accessible but just barely.

Wife and I were invited in for the tour which was very nice of them. They had opted out of a regular oven as they strive to cook outside whenever possible Did have a four burner cooktop and a microwave/convection oven combo.

Wife and I shared notes the next morning after an evening of mental pros and cons. I told her that the TDR group was having a current running discussion on the subject.

She compared the challenge of walking to the front of the coach and down four stairs (narrow) through a door that only opens 90 degrees with a tray of food to a running of the gauntlet....compared to the trailer where the stairs are outside and the door opens 180 degrees so all you need to do is work your elbows through the door opening and you are out free and clear. Where we are the chuck wagon on many trips this is important stuff.

I still observe from a repair stand point and pictured a poor tech having to change an injector.......which means the slides have to be fully opened and the bed lifted up for access to the valve cover. Every tool requires a trip out through to his rollaway and then back the entire length of the coach.
Had the rear cooling package and I did not see room enough to pull the radiator without major issues. Bad JuJu there.
Another thing....had a leaking P/S reservoir which will be covered under warranty but it splattering fluid all over the front off the Jeep. Hadn't thought of that.

So far the fiver concept still works for me.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks for the ongoing discussion. Good points all around. I need to get back to organizng these thoughts.

Thanks to Dutch&Di for definitively answering one question: clearly, a quality coach will last.

 

[SnoKing]

Well, they only came out of the trailer twice in three days.......WTH....

But talked to a very nice couple with a new Tiffen motorhome, an Allegro Red I believe. On a Freightliner chassis.

They had made some good decisions by going with floor tiles instead of carpet and a residential Whirlpool fridge with inverter. Good for 12 hours on the batteries. He was more comfortable driving the coach and towing his Jeep as opposed to a fiver. Claimed 10 mpg. He liked the food and bathroom on the go features but as I pictured it in my mind with slides in I don't think that the fridge could be opened. Bathroom would be accessible but just barely.

Wife and I were invited in for the tour which was very nice of them. They had opted out of a regular oven as they strive to cook outside whenever possible Did have a four burner cooktop and a microwave/convection oven combo.

Wife and I shared notes the next morning after an evening of mental pros and cons. I told her that the TDR group was having a current running discussion on the subject.

She compared the challenge of walking to the front of the coach and down four stairs (narrow) through a door that only opens 90 degrees with a tray of food to a running of the gauntlet....compared to the trailer where the stairs are outside and the door opens 180 degrees so all you need to do is work your elbows through the door opening and you are out free and clear. Where we are the chuck wagon on many trips this is important stuff.

I still observe from a repair stand point and pictured a poor tech having to change an injector.......which means the slides have to be fully opened and the bed lifted up for access to the valve cover. Every tool requires a trip out through to his rollaway and then back the entire length of the coach.
Had the rear cooling package and I did not see room enough to pull the radiator without major issues. Bad JuJu there.
Another thing....had a leaking P/S reservoir which will be covered under warranty but it splattering fluid all over the front off the Jeep. Hadn't thought of that.

So far the fiver concept still works for me.

You want a side radiator! Rear radiators are noted for having to be cleaned a lot, particularly ones with certain Cats that had a lot of blow-by. Oil film and dust = plugged up rad, similar to 24V RAMs!

Normal routine service on a coach at a Freightliner dealer is in the thousands, like 1500+. Most people in our snowbird park in Arizona with nice coaches are are not people that worked for hourly wages all of their lives. Most are people who signed pay checks for others. Guy behind us at our sunbird park just bought a new 325K coach. He is third generation owner of a large body shop in Seattle. Guy next to us has a really nice HR Navigator coach and tows his Chevy SSR or Caddy small SUV. He owned a construction company and was second generation. They still have shopping mall land holdings with a retirement senior apartment complex next to it. These are people that pay to have their rigs serviced and repaired, and do not need a bank loan to pay for it.

SNOKING

 

[DClark]

First, thanks to Terry Jay for the links. The Escapees forum is interesting - have spent several hours reading already.

New Horizons: heavy and large certainly describes! I thought Mobile Suites was the heavyweight, but New Horizons appears to be very heavy. Their website shows that the shortest fifth wheel they make is just shy of 37 feet and then going on out to 46 feet or so. I notice a number of the folks on the Escapees forum have New Horizons fifth wheels which they tow with HD class tractors. Apparently there is a whole cottage industry in converting used HD tractor trucks into RV towing rigs. The argument for the converted HD tractor is: more than enough power to go and far more power to stop; comfortable ride; fuel economy is as good as smaller trucks when towing; cost when purchased used is highly competitive; since truck originally intended to run for a million miles, purchasing with 300K to 400K miles means the truck will outlive the purchaser when used for full-time RV. I don't know enough to assess the accuracy of all of that, but there are some true believers.

It occurs to me there is such a thing as too many choices. There is a very wide variety of how people approach the whole RV thing. Thus, I think the first thing one needs to do is decide what type of travel you envision. My greatest desire is to go to the places that I can get close to nature; hence, I think of state parks, county parks, national forest, national park. There is a large variety, but I think I'd like to stay in the 34 ft to 36 ft range (motorhome or fifth wheel). That narrows the scope just a little, although there are still multiple options.

Good thing I have years - looks like it will take that long to absorb all the information!

Looking forward to hearing more.

Just a thought, but if you are wanting to visit Fed, State and local parks you may find that a 34' to 38' rig will not fit into them. They certainly won't in MT where I live. I have a 26' 5ver and have trouble sometimes. So you might want to think again about where you want to go before investing in a rig that won't fit into your plans.
DClark