Excessive Oil Compsuption 5.9 24V Cummins

[Tremendo]

Hello guys, my name is Thomas, I’m new to this website and forum for 2 generation Rams. I’m writing you guys today for an expertise advice, and hopefully, help me resolve this issue I’m finding myself with my Ram.
Not too long ago, I bought this Dodge Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins with only 81K. The truck is in mint condition all around, however, there is a concern that got me thinking if I should get rid of this truck and go back to Toyotas.

The problems is that it uses too much oil. When I bought it, I changed all fluids. It has been driven for about 1.5K and I already had to add 1 1/2 quart of oil. I’m using full synthetic rótela 15w40. I don’t know if that would make a difference since those trucks weren’t equip with egr system, but definitely way too much oil being burned in such short of time. In addition, she does blows a tiny bit of blue smoke in the mornings (just when I’m driving off the drive way) then it clears out. Furthermore, I have checked the inlet turbo hoses (not exhaust side yet ) for obvious signs of oil residue, and nothing was founded. It doesn’t have blow-by either. Just normal white haze from the crankcase coming out of the oil filler cap.

Any ideas what should I start looking, different oil, valve seals, piston rings?

Hope I don’t have to tear this thing down any further than I need, any help I would strongly appreciate it.

Regards,
Tom

 

[TFucili]

These engines are not known for oil consumption issues, in general. What type of air filter does it have? Do you know the previous ownerer(s)?

 

[Tremendo]

These engines are not known for oil consumption issues, in general. What type of air filter does it have? Do you know the previous ownerer(s)?

Hello, I’m running a stage 2 Afe air intake system. I wish I had known the prior owner, I bought this truck from a local mom and pop dealership who sells 1st and 2nd gen Rams.

 

[GAmes]

If you are burning oil the exhaust won't be blue like a gasser, so don't use that a measure. When my original engine had 800,000 miles on it I was going through a qt every 800 miles and the exhaust was clear. No excessive blowby either. In your case I would be looking for something other than worn rings. Are you sure it doesn't have a massive leak, as in KDP?

If it isn't leaking I suggest you do try a different brand of oil. Believe it or not readers, there are several cases where just changing brands decreased oil consumption. I know there isn't any logic to it, but it does work sometimes.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

^^^ What he said.
White / Grey haze coming out of the oil filler hole is blow by. Have you done the tea kettle test? I would be very suspicious of the stated mileage and/or how the previous owner treated this Cummins. If it were me, I would run a compression and cylinder leak down test. One other thing; you didn’t mention any evidence of oil leakage eg; lots of oil and dirt buildup on the lower end extending back to the trans?

 

[Tremendo]

Hello GAmes, thank you for your evaluation. Now, far as oil leaks are concerned there is no obvious seepage nor large oil leaks that I can see. Front and rear main seals, valve cover, turbo return hoses, all are bone dry. For clarification, what does KDP stands for?

I regards to oil brands, I have not yet tried any oil brand other than CJ-4 full synthetic, my case Rotella 15W-40 Synthec. Although there is a great thread I founded here that talks about the differences between CJ-4 and CI-4, my next move will be to try conventional semi-synthetic compatible with CI-4. Hopefully it can alleviate my oil consumption issue. "Lets see"

Clarifying the blue smoke symptom, it also happens when it seats over for pro-long amount of time. For example, 7-8 hours, but it clears out after 2-3 minutes of driving. It does not happen in any other engine condition. My initial thought was the valve steam seal.

 

[GCroyle]

Guys what if Tremendo removes the how from turbo to intercooler at the intercooler connection and look for oil residue, film.

Tremendo, KDP is Killer Dowel Pin. A dowel pin that locates the timing gear case to block. They have fallen out and cause damage, including frequently broken gear case, but its a massive leak.

Research KDP right TDR here for details.

 

[Tremendo]

Hi Boeing Diesel, the tea kettle test come out Ok. I checked at normal operating temperatures and the oil filler cap stays steady. As far as millage, everything on the carfax matched with what was on the odometer. It had exactly 79,534 miles, two owners before me. I have also thought that the prior owner might have been little too rough on this truck, if the compression test comes out as no good. I have not yet conducted a compression check.

 

[GAmes]

If you can find any CI-4 oil it will be at a premium. CK-4 is the current grade. Don't worry, they are all compatible. You can pour conventional CK-4 in with your CJ-4 synthetic and nothing bad will happen. With your consumption rate you could change oil without draining any.

Valve stem seals are a consideration, but if the 81 k is accurate they would be about last on my list. As GCroyle has suggested a good look at the tube between the turbo and the intercooler would be worth a check. If it is dry I'd disconnect the downpipe and look for oil in the exhaust. Those two checks are relatively easy. After that a blow-by check. The local Cummins shop can do it but you can build your own (though not as accurate) tester for very little money. https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-engine/232657-checking-blowby.html

 

[Tremendo]

Hi Croyle, your suggestion about removing the the main turbo hose that goes to the inter-cooler inlet connection is a procedure I have not yet completed. It is worth the shoot as GAmes has also suggested it. In addition, the exhaust down pipe will be remove to completely discard the Turbo as a potential cause of this consumption.

GAmes, as I have noted to Boeing Diesel, the mileage are accurate per the car-fax at time of purchase. I just hope it has not been tampered in any way. Far as the blow-by check, does a Cummins dealerships are authorize to do it that you know of? I have heard that they always refer Dodge Cummins owners back to the Dodge dealerships for any troubleshooting. Dodge Dealer, a place I am trying to avoid at all cost.

I would let you guys know what were my findings as far as the turbo inlet and outlet pipes are concern at the end of the day. Thanks in advance

 

[gtwitch]

I don't know if you are trying to run your truck at the full line or not?? I find that If i try to run my 99 CTD at the full line it will usually use the first quart down to the half between full and add fairly rapidly (1000 miles or so) and is at that level for the next 3000 miles until I may have to add another quart back to the mid mark. It seems to push that top quart out the crank case vent if it to full! I have used Rotella T-6 for the last 14 years and 80K miles with no issues.
gtwitch in wyoming

 

[Tremendo]

An update guys,
Just finished pulling the outlet, inlet and inter cooler turbo pipes and all them checked ok. No sign of oil puddle in any of the aforementioned.

gtwitch, yes I have filled my oil up to the full mark exactly. I just do not know if that is a normal thing for this type of engines to drink that much oil in such short amount of time. I have a person here who has told me that is not common for this engines to drink so much oil, specially at the rate I have described here.

My next move would be a blowby manometer test I guess

 

[BoeingDiesel]

the tea kettle test come out Ok. I checked at normal operating temperatures and the oil filler cap stays steady. As far as millage, everything on the carfax matched with what was on the odometer. It had exactly 79,534 miles, two owners before me. I have also thought that the prior owner might have been little too rough on this truck, if the compression test comes out as no good. I have not yet conducted a compression check.

That's good news Tremendo and I'd check the turbo as per GAmes suggestion. It's now a matter of elimination. Question...when you changed the oil how many quarts did you use?

 

[Tremendo]

BoeingDiesel, when I conducted my oil change bout 1.8K ago, I have used about 12 quarts. That put me all way up to the full mark. Then shortly after, I started to noticed that the level was significantly coming down to the point of almost 1/4" above the ADD mark. Refilled it with 2 more quarts.

 

[fest3er]

One other thing to check is blow-by. Mine was using a *lot* of oil. Until I removed the 710 cap and installed some PVC tubing. In my case, the oil reaching the top end couldn't get back to the crank case due to excessive pressure and found somewhere else to go. Once I relieved that pressure, oil consumption returned to 'normal'. Even today with 315k miles, if I generally keep the boost under 10PSI, it doesn't use much oil.

 

[GAmes]

fest3er, do you by chance have a BHAF? If I had to keep my engine below 10 psi of boost I would have to park the truck. With 400,000 miles on this engine I'm concerned about the qt every 2500 miles I use. I try to keep it below 20 pounds of boost for transmission longevity, but I'm not afraid to go to 30 if I have to.

 

[Tremendo]

Update guys,
I have attached a video taken this afternoon checking for blowby by using the kettle cup test.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Tremendo, I'll bet you have a vacuum leak. Turn your air control to floor with the fan on high and check to see if your blowing air out of the defrost which is the default setting in the event of a vacuum problem. If so, start with the rubber coupling on the vac' pump and work your way up from there.
Had the same thing happen to my '99 many years ago and thanks to the TDR it's an easy fix. BTW...12 Qts is too much.

 

[fest3er]

fest3er, do you by chance have a BHAF? If I had to keep my engine below 10 psi of boost I would have to park the truck. With 400,000 miles on this engine I'm concerned about the qt every 2500 miles I use. I try to keep it below 20 pounds of boost for transmission longevity, but I'm not afraid to go to 30 if I have to.

Nope. Stock-ish Amsoil filter. 215 injectors, stock fuel plate full forward but back 1/16" for smoke control, ATS 89% TC/VB. Basically, I avoid prolonged high boost when I can and I avoid TC clutch lockup under higher power. Primarily because the input shaft stripped after 7 years of operation, even with my wheezing power level.

Actually, the gauge indicates 10PSI. But I suspect I need to replace the hose; it's gotten rather hard after, what, 18 years and the ends probably leak more than I should like. 10 PSI indicated may be closer to 15.

(I need to pay attention to the sub-forum tags; didn't see Tremendo's is a 24V until just now.) I forgot the 24V 710 cap is in the valve cover whereas my 12V goes 'direct' to the crankcase, which lets the filler tube vent the CC much more effectively.

 

[GAmes]

I hate to say it but it sounds like the Amsoil filter is about as efficient as a K&N. You shouldn't be having blow by issues with only 315k.