Excessive Wear on Outside Edge of Front Wheels

[MMeilicke]

At 12,0000 miles I had the front end aligned as there was excessive wear and cupping on the outside edge of both tires. At 18,000 I replaced the tires because they continued to wear and cup on the outside edge and I also had the front end realigned at a Dodge dealer. Now I have 24,000 and the new tires are wearing and cupping on the outside edges and they previously had worn. It appears that there might be a problem with the truck staying in alignment. Can anyone out there offer an explanation as to what is going on.



My truck is an 08 3500 dually 2x4. This is my fourth Dodge and I never experienced any alignment problems previously. Thanks for your help.

 

[MChessick]

I have an 03 Dually 2x4 and have the same issue although not as bad as you. I am still able to get some good miles out of the tires. I think the weight of the diesel has something to do with it. I just bumped my front tire pressure up to 65psi to give that a try. It also may depend on driving style and how much city type driving you do. My 2 cents.



Pitcru

 

[AWise]

What pressures are you running in the tires?

 

[MMeilicke]

I have just done a spreadsheet on the last two alignments. It appears that the toe in is not staying in adjustment. Has anyone had any problems with that?

 

[MMeilicke]

I am running 65 pounds. But if I was running low pressure there would be equal ware on both the inside and outside edges of the tire. That is not happening

 

[Hoefler]

I run 80 in the front on mine and get better wear than at 65. If you do a lot of hard turns, the lower pressure will let the tire roll under and cause excessive wear on the corners.

 

[BLNRAY]

how often do you rotate,my 03 has 361,000mi i average 100,000mi on a set of tires, i rotate every 10-15000 mi

 

[macdaddy]

MM



Did you go 12K on the fronts with out any rotating?. Also 65psi in the front is too low. The motor is over 1100 lbs alone. Providing your alignment, shocks, ball joints, and balancing are good you should'nt have any problems.



You need to make sure and rotate them so they all six spin the opposite direction at each rotation. If you have BSW's try rotating then in the following order. I do them every 10K.



right front to inside left rear.

left front to inside right rear

inside left rear to outside left rear

inside right rear to outside right rear

Outside right rear to right front

outside left rear to left front.



If you have RWL youll have to just switch the outside rears from side to side, or break them down every time to do the above. I chose to just switch them from side to side, and let me tell you is you have to do this you'll find the outside rears will wear 2:1



Mac

 

[HBarlow]

I agree with the rotation suggestion. I've never experienced uneven tire wear on any of the three Rams I've owned and even with high mileage never replaced any front end parts or had an alignment done. Also got about 110k miles on each set of Michelins.

I have always rotated the tires frequently though.

 

[MMeilicke]

Thanks for all of the input. Yes I did rotate and remount the front tires prior to the installing the new tires. And the outside edge continued to wear at the same pace.

I continue to believe this is an alignment issue. I prepared a spread showing the complete alignment settings after each alignment. If one can assume the alignment was OK when the truck was built, then at 11,000 miles and at 18,000 the alignment was out of whack with the toe in settings. And again now at 23,000 the tires continue to wear and cup on the outside edge as before. Now why can't the toe in setting stay put? This is my fourth Dodge and I never had a problem with the other trucks.

If anyone would like to see the spread sheet I wold more than happy to email the PDF attachment to you. I tried to copy it here but the spacing wasn't right.

 

[HBarlow]

Your signature indicates you fulltime with a heavy fiver. Is your fifth wheel hitch mounted centered over the rear axle? The reason I ask is to eliminate the unlikely possibility that your hitch is shifting weight rearward and unloading the front end.

If I had to guess I would guess your truck was delivered with or experienced a hit that damaged a front steering component.

 

[MMeilicke]

Went to the Dodge dealership yesterday. The alignment guy said there was no way the toe setting could have shifted. They suggested air bags to prevent the rear end from dropping to much when the 5th wheel is attached to the truck which could unload the front axle. But they did not understand that if the hitch is mounted correctly, over or just slightly ahead of the rear axle, this is impossible to happen. Anyway I only have 3,000 pound pin weight which is no problem for the dually. But they suggested I visit an alignment shop which sells air bags which I did. They did a manual measurement of the front end and determined the toe in was way off. I showed them the result of the two previous computer alignments, their response was that computer alignments can be off. They believed that was my one and only problem. So they aligned the front end and it improved the steering as there was a slight pull to the right which I attributed to the road bed. I had the front tires flipped on the rims and have taken depth tread measurement and will keep track to see how the tires are wearing. Their final thoughts were: the truck was delivered out of alignment , the two previous alignments were never done correctly. I shall weight the truck and 5th wheel to see what the weight is on the front axel with and without the trailer. So if these folks are right, the whole problem is wrapped around lousy alignments from the get go. We shall see.

 

[d6c]

I wonder if there are front-end components damaged/worn that are allowing the mis-alignment of the front tires when at road speed? All these alignment efforts really dont know what the tires are doing when under load/at speed. As far as gooseneck/fifth wheel placement unloading the front end at least you have a dually. I know a trailer dealer in central Oregon that put his gooseneck ball 9" forward of rear axle and still saw unloading of the front end if he put a LOT of pin weight on it. From my gooseneck-pretty heavy- experience over the years with lots of trips to the scales the ball being ANYWHERE around the rear axle will not change the front axle weight very much at all. 33 thouand gcvw= 100lbs front axle change+-

 

[HBarlow]

Went to the Dodge dealership yesterday. The alignment guy said there was no way the toe setting could have shifted. They suggested air bags to prevent the rear end from dropping to much when the 5th wheel is attached to the truck which could unload the front axle. But they did not understand that if the hitch is mounted correctly, over or just slightly ahead of the rear axle, this is impossible to happen. Anyway I only have 3,000 pound pin weight which is no problem for the dually. But they suggested I visit an alignment shop which sells air bags which I did. They did a manual measurement of the front end and determined the toe in was way off. I showed them the result of the two previous computer alignments, their response was that computer alignments can be off. They believed that was my one and only problem. So they aligned the front end and it improved the steering as there was a slight pull to the right which I attributed to the road bed. I had the front tires flipped on the rims and have taken depth tread measurement and will keep track to see how the tires are wearing. Their final thoughts were: the truck was delivered out of alignment , the two previous alignments were never done correctly. I shall weight the truck and 5th wheel to see what the weight is on the front axel with and without the trailer. So if these folks are right, the whole problem is wrapped around lousy alignments from the get go. We shall see.

I can believe that. It is possible that your truck hit a curb whlle being moved by a transport driver, a tech in the dealership where you bought it, or by a prospective buyer who may have test driven it before you became owner.

You may have had bad front end alignments done by techs who didn't even understand or know how to use the fancy electronic alignment machines they were using.

The automobile service industry is now populated by technicians (not the old mechanics) who can bluff their way through some service and repairs without knowing much. In fairness to them, new cars and trucks are far more complex and require more training and specialization than prior generations.

As you said, if your fifth wheel hitch is mounted over or slightly forward of the centerline of the rear axle it is not taking weight off the front axle.

I've never had the experience but I've been told that once a radial tire starts an uneven wear pattern it will continue, even if rotated. Your worn and damaged front tires may continue the uneven wear pattern even if the front end is now properly aligned . . . which could result in your doubing the alignment and having it done again. It might be better to either replace the damaged tires or rotate them to the rear axle if only the front two are damaged.

 

[MMeilicke]

HBarlow, thanks for the comments. So it appears I have no choice but to see what happens. You all take care and remember rubber side down

 

[rbattelle]

Now why can't the toe in setting stay put? This is my fourth Dodge and I never had a problem with the other trucks.

This is an excellent question. If it were me, having just had it aligned, I think I'd put white paint markings on the tie rod ends and all the threaded areas of the steering components. That might indicate whether something is moving around on you.



Ryan

 

[MMeilicke]

Excellent idea. I will do that

 

[rjones]

Not to hi jack this thread but My right front tire is wearing on the outer edge also I noticed this during a bad tie rod end on that wheel..... could a bad tie rod cause that sever of a wear issue the tire is 85% tread less on the outside and it tapers to the center of tire these tires have 15k on them I since have went to the new updated steering arms.....

 

[WhiteSheep]

Frequent tire rotation is the best advice. My 04. 5 has the same issue and nothing helps but rotation. I was able to "un-cup" one pair of tires I didn't pay attention to by mounting them on the opposite side in the back and running only 35 lbs pressure. It took a few hundred miles, but it allowed me to get more use out of the tires. I pay more attention now.

 

[rscurtis]

The tires on my '03 wear perfectly, and I do rotate them regularly. I expect the original Michelins to go near 100K miles. If you're wearing the outside edge, I's suspect excessive toe in or agressive behavior when cornering.