Off Roading Excursion Roll Cage

[MMcCallie]

I've been doing some pretty tough 4 wheeling in the Rockies this summer. The only times i've parked my truck and ridden in other vehicles are when my truck starts acquiring scratches. I've gotten quite a few. My goal is to protect my paint and body so that i can attack harder trails without damage. I love driving this surprisingly capable vehicle and want to make this truck more capable instead of buying another vehicle to drain my time and money.



The largest diameter i want to go with is 1. 5" to fit between doors and mirrors in tight clearances. I built my bumper and running board out of very thick Schedule 40 pipe, but have already dented my running boards. I need something much stronger.



The truck probably weighs about 10,000 lbs. I realize i will be adding a few hundred more pounds with the cage and am willing to deal with that to protect the truck so i can have more fun off road. I don't think . 120 wall thickness 1. 5" O. D. DOM tubing will be strong enough. I don't plan to roll upside down, but it is likely i will lay the truck on its side and will definitely brush against dirt banks and rock walls.



Will DOM be strong enough or must i use Chromoly? What wall thickness does the tubing need to be? Any suggestions on which directions hoops should go? I plan to add small buttresses to help brace around welds. I will weld 3 vertical bars on each running board, at least 2 points from the rear bumper, and still make the front bumper separable.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Sounds like you're talking about an Exo-skeleton - it won't do much for brush scratches. I'd suggest you take a look at Pirate4x4. Com - The largest off roading website in the world. in the Toyota & Jeep Cherokee forums for ideas on exo-cages and take a look at the SCORE rule book for the cage requirements.



Brian

 

[Bob4x4]

At that weight 2" is recommended and chrome moly is the material of choice.



Bob

 

[MMcCallie]

I was just visiting Phat Jeeps while wheeling this weekend. I was told that chromoly really isn't worth the extra money and saw some extreme stuff. I drove up to Wheeler Lake, it was tough on my truck. Driver's door is a bit jammed up, as is the front fender. I've now mashed up both of my running boards. Didn't have much money when i built them, wish i'd used DOM instead of Schedule 40. Not sure how to strengthen them without making them look even worse.



A little more lift would be great, but it will only make me rub even more on the top and sides since i would also lean further. My Colorado pinstripes are probably into the millions. I'm not crazy enough to let such a nice truck, one that i can barely afford to drive, roll over. The cage would mostly need to avoid body damage while squeezing between trees and leaning against berms and boulders.



I also want the function for better CB and scanner antenna mounts, a hefty cargo rack, and light mounts. I'm attaching a pic of what i have built so far from earlier this summer up Moody Hill at the base of Crystal Mountain. Yeah, Storm Mountain yields a very nice view. Haven't had enough time off to get further west than Dillon.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Maybe I'm a bit dense, but why would you want to take a nice truck like that out where you will be getting it dinged up?

I read you didn't want to buy a 2nd truck, but that Excursion is way too expensive for me to want to treat it badly.

 

[MMcCallie]

Right, i'm trying to keep it from getting dinged up. I think the same thing when i see all of those new Toyota FJs and Jeep TJs on the trail that cost more than i paid for mine used with 92k.

I've been building this truck for the past few years to handle some abuse. Put in the Cummins, bullet proof drivetrain, 1 ton axles, customized the suspension, built the running boards and bumper, etc. I've put so much into this truck, i really can't start over on another project vehicle, this one is my daily driver and it so far meets almost all of my needs perfectly. It was 14 degrees the other night at Wheeler Lake and all 4 of us were able to keep warm in the back for a picnic dinner.

Everyone is amazed (especially me) by how well this truck performs off road. It definitely won't squeeze through every trail, but i'd like to feel OK about taking it on some of the trails i've had to avoid for fear of body damage. Though my door no longer sits right, i haven't gotten a single dent, just scratches in the paint and some mangling unerneath. No mechanical breakage that's kept me from driving home. Lockers would make it more capable but i can't afford them. For now, i'm just trying to get some more info on metals so i might be able to start gathering parts soon. Guess i'm leaning toward some thicker than usual DOM.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Wow! I just went and read your profile. I didn't realize it wasn't a stock truck. Nice job, would love to see it in person one day.

 

[Bob4x4]

Wow! I just went and read your profile. I didn't realize it wasn't a stock truck. Nice job, would love to see it in person one day.

Most likely just like my answer would be... ... ... because I can:-laf



#ad




Bob

 

[Pavemen]

i think that you could get away with 2" x 0. 138" DOM. however with the tuck that big, i really doubt you will ever really get into a situation where you would need an exo cage. You also will gain about 6-8" of width in some places by adding the exo.

You will likely not be able to get adequate roof protection because you can't add a b-pillar bar due to the rear doors. If you can add one, it will likely be far from the body to allow the door to open fully. Then you gain a bunch more width.

I wheeled my Ram for 8 years before I had any use for an exo. I still didnt add one (its been retired to trail duty and has an internal cage getting installed).

honestly, I would not bother putting an exo on that thing. its your DD and I doubt you will wheel it hard enough or fit it into situations that you would need one.

 

[Crash&Burn]

I'd think at the speeds your going 1 3/4 . 120 mild steel would be fine... ... ... . Stock car racers depend on 1 3/4 . 090 and go over 120 mph.

 

[TCluff]

The main reason people choose chromoly over DOM is just weight! While the material itself is stronger most chromoly is made with a thinner wall thickness, so that you can have the same strength as DOM tubing but with half the weight! It really just comes down to your wallet. At 10,000 lbs already I wouldn't worry about the weight... save the money and get you some more power (insert Tim Tool Man Taylor grunt here!) :-laf

 

[MMcCallie]

Schedule 160 or 80 versus DOM? Both Too Heavy?

Just bought myself a Readywelder, a helmet, some Argon/CO2 and other welding gear. I'm ready to start building. I've relocated to Montana and visited the metal supply place in Great Falls today. They do not stock DOM but can order it. I got a tour of the warehouse, got to handle some different sticks they have in stock.



They have Schedule 160 pipe, which has a 1/4" wall thickness. 21' stick has some walk to it but is extremely heavy, should be strong enough. We took lots of measurements and I'll need about 120' of pipe. If the entire cage is built out of Schedule 160 the cage will weigh just under 500 lbs. NO WAY! I just put 37s under this truck and can feel the difference on exit and on ramps. Truck is already top heavy so at this point I am thinking I would prefer to sacrifice some strength to be lighter weight.



Schedule 80 is just half that wall thickness, about 1/8", still pretty heavy. That cage will weigh around 400 lbs. To do the 4 main hoops in 160 and the rest in 80 will weigh about 460 lbs. These numbers are estimates from the measurements we took.



I don't want this cage to weigh more than 200 lbs. The tubing we were looking at is way thicker than Schedule 40 or DOM . 120. I have to go with 1. 5" O. D. to fit between my doors, no 2". The metal place told me that outer diameter has nothing to do with strength, it is the wall thickness.



The Schedule 160 would be almost impossible to bend. Tensile rated to about 35,000 lbs. I really don't plan to roll this truck but in order to keep up with the Jeep Cherokees my buddies drive, it will rub against many hills, rocks, and trees. The weight alone of my 10,000 lb truck crumpled my Schedule 40 so I know it needs to be stronger than that but even that was some heavy pipe. Will the roll cage help stiffen my running boards enough that they won't bend up anymore?



How much stronger is the same wall thickness of DOM compared to welded seam pipe? Is it really stronger? Is it lighter or do you just get away with less wall thickness because of the extra strength? I was told the chromoly is very difficult to weld and I'm not an expert, especially since I'll be using a setup that is totally new to me. I was also told that chromoly really isn't that much lighter weight, would only shave about 35 lbs from the whole cage.



I need to make a decision quickly. What is the lightest, thinnest walled, minimum requirement to build a cage for this truck that could survive a slow roll or at least frequent leans and lots of banging abuse? I realize that if I bend a section here and there, that I can patch or replace it, but I really don't want to see big ugly welds all over the truck. I will probably have my welder with me if I need to patch but would like to build a cage that will last forever. And it needs to be bendable in my cheap little 16 ton bottle jack tubing bender.



Oh, another puzzler. I have crumpled up both of my running boards. I would like to flatten them back down before I build my cage off of them, otherwise, they will be uneven and will look pretty gnarly. I have a sheet of 3/8" steel and my buddies tried driving their Jeeps up on to it but that did absolutely nothing. Is there any way to flatten these boards back down or should I just build off of what I've got?



Thanks,

Matt

 

[Crash&Burn]

See my post above... ... . surely someone has 080 to 120 mild steel tubing available. . check with the local racers!

Also 1 3/4 od would be the size most benders would have. Probably about $6. 00 a bend...

 

[MMcCallie]

Don't most Jeeps have cages built out of . 120 DOM. They weigh, what, 3 or 4 thousands pounds gross? My truck weighs 3 times that. I can't imagine that same tubing being strong enough.

Perhaps I need to post pictures of my running boards. One side crumpled at a speed of zero miles per hours, barely rocking back and forth when I got hung up on a boulder that took about 10 minutes to climb over. The other side got banged up from one trail.

I doubt . 120 DOM will hold 10,000 lbs against pointy rocks with the velocity of the vehicle rolling at speeds under 15 mph without denting. I live 120 miles from the nearest Wal Mart or Home Depot. There isn't much around. I teach at a school in a poverty district with about 600 students K-12. No rock crawling until I get back to Colorado. The metal supply place told me steel is going up 7% next month. Just not sure what thickness the DOM tube I should order.

 

[Crash&Burn]

Hitting a wall at 120+ will put more load on the cage then you will ever encounter at 15 mph no matter what the weight. I didn't say it woundn't dent, but you will be safe.

The weak link will be the MIG welding no matter how heavy the material. Pro cages are TIG welded... ... if you use heavy wall tube 1/4 or more, a quality stick weld would be much stronger!

 

[MMcCallie]

I've been reading a bit on the net and have come to the conclusion that nothing will definitely survive an accident. At least, nothing I have the tools, time, or funds to build. Many have reported on other forums that they have mangled . 120 DOM during slow off road incidents. Guess I'll just go with whatever's available from the nearest warehouse that this warehouse can order it from. Still wanting to go thicker on the wall diameter of the pipe though. Hopefully I'll have some pictures to post within the next couple months. Still wishing I could find a way to flatten my running boards back down.