Exhaust Brake / 3 Second Delay?

[PRout]

Was originally thinking about getting the Pacbrake for simplicity, & price is good. Then read all the posts about it sticking on, also, they dont seem to have the stopping power of the BD at lower r's.

So, decided to go w/ the BD. Now Im reading the posts of them sticking as well.

Now, Im hearing that if you go one way, you need to add a microswitch to the gas pedal, or if you go the other way it just plugs into the existing wiring harness & uses the stock electronics.

Then there's talk of a 3 second delay on one of the brakes. Is this good? which one has that?

Bottom line here, is it looks like I'm connnnnfused... . #ad
#ad


Can someone please pass the advil??

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2k, 27k miles, QC, SB, 4x, 6sp, 3. 54, 285/75r16 bfg/at, stock air cleaner (reliable), silencer ring "in" (runs better), Sunnybrook 28' fiver, 16,780 lbs. 18. 5 mpg (unloaded), 12-14 mpg (loaded). VA, DD1's, PS Boost module & elbow... also, Nitrous Oxide piped direct into the block (stealth - to keep the warranty), twin turbos, 10 gallon per minute fuel pump, ECM right out of Don Garlit's Top Fueler (he gave it to me) (for letting him ride in my truck), Super Modified DD1 Injectors ("Hand Honed" with a 1/4" reamer & my 12v Makita). More BOMBING to come!!

 

[PRout]

Oh, and, can you add the gearshift switch on either one??

uhhh Martha. . better grab some Tylenol too...

 

[dresslered]

Shortshift-
There are many good E-Brakes out there. I use the Jacob's E-Brake which connects directly to the ECM. When you completely back off of the accelerator, the ECM will toggle the Exhaust Brake on after a brief delay (approx. 1. 5 seconds). I like this method as it allows shifting without engagement of the E-Brake. In general, exhaust brakes that connect directly to the ECM have this delay whereas the microswitch set-ups do not (it is possible to add a delay to the microswitch set-up). Some people prefer the immediate response offered by the microswitch set-ups (no delay). Either way, a stick shift mounted switch adds further control for either set-up. Also, maximum braking is not always the best feature. You can really go through rear tires if you drive around empty. Weigh the pros and cons for your application.

Less confused? #ad


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David Dressler
2001 Driftwood 3500 Quad Cab 4x4, 155 inch WB, HO Cummins (ETH), 6-Speed (DEE), SLT+, 3. 54 LSD, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Heated Leather, Sliding Window, Jacob's E-Brake, Rhino Liner, VDO Vision (pyro, boost, engine + diff. temp. ), Weather Guard Diamond Plate Saddle Box, Tork Lift camper tie-downs, Mag-Hytec, Mopar Tow Hooks, AND functional Halo light!
Bigfoot 3000 10. 11 Slide-in Camper. "Do it in a Dually"

 

[Thomas]

Shortshift,

Any exhaust brake that uses the 12 volts at pin 20 of the ECM will have a delay. The delay is not really three seconds but somewhere between one and two seconds. I'm guilty of mentioning three seconds in earlier posts but the delay on my truck is really about half of that.

The exhaust brake suppliments the service brakes and the short delay is not an issue, especially if your driving style isn't too aggressive. The delay allows for shifting without the butterfly closing.

I've been watching the thread with the mention of sticking solenoids as I imagine many others have. I've had zero problems with my e-brake by Jacobs installed fifteen months and 36,000 miles ago. I turn on the brake when oil pressure comes up and shut it off a few minutes before shut down.

The on-off switch can be mounted anywhere. The e-brake by Jacobs came with a lighted toggle switch and instructions for mounting it in the dash—very low in the dash. I chose to use a two-speed axle switch on my shift lever instead. I believe it's the same switch that BD has an option.

[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 01-23-2001). ]

 

[Ed]

Shortshift,

I have a PacBrake. It was installed in August 00 and worked flawlessly until I decided to wash the engine. The day after the engine bath, (light water spray), the solenoid stuck and brake was stuck on. I received EXCELLENT assistance from their customer service, (in addition to all the great help from Bob here on the TDR). I was able to get the vacuum solenoid operating and problem was solved. Apparently, if water gets sprayed directly on the solenoid it gets inside from the brass filter. The braking capacity seems to be more than adequate. I have the switch at the foot but have ordered the wiring harness to plug into the ECM. I don't like the constant clicking from the foot switch. I think you will find that any of the three work well. I did read that the one that mounts down the exhaust pipe doesn't brake as well as those that are mounted directly after the turbo.

My opinion... and you know what that is worth.

Good luck with your decision.

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1999 QC SLT 4x4 LB 2500 Cummins, 6 speed, HD.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I too have a PacBrake the with the ECM controlled switch. The brake was on my 97 originally and I put it on the '00 after I traded trucks. I has well over 100,000 miles on it counting both trucks. It has never "frozen up"... . yet and I use power washer to clean my engine. I use the brake every day.

I have the on-off switch(BD) mounted on the shift stick. I like the ECM time delay which lets me shift gears without the brake on. I had the microswitch under the accelerator pedal on the '97 and didn't like the annoying clicking.

The PacBrake, E-brake, and BD are all good brakes and all give good service. You make the decision.

Bill

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Y2K 3500QC, 6 Speed, 4. 10, SLT+, Camper & Tow Pkg. , Westin Chrome Nerf Bars, Mopar Flaps, Reese 20K Hitch, EGT & Boost Gauges, RPM 45 Gallon Aux. Fuel Tank, Highway Products 5th Wheel Toolbox, ECM Controlled PacBrake, Painless Wiring Kit, Mag-Hytec Diff. Cover, Rancho 9000, Air Lift 5000 Air Bags, TOYS: '97 Hitchhiker II 31' 5th Wheel, 2 slideouts, 19,750 GCW, '94 Lance 990 11' 3" Slide-In Camper, Torque-Lift Camper Tiedowns

 

[Scrmbld4X4]

I run the Jacobs. No problems since install over a year ago. The delay as posted above is only 1 - 2 seconds max. Helps for shifting. The truck I drive at work Ford L9000 has the micro switch deal and it takes some getting used to. The brake is always going on and off. If it could talk I'm sure it would cus the new guys. "make up your mind... " I like the delay. Only mod i would do is the shift knob switch. The low position of the switch can be a PIA.

 

[BFaoro]

Bill, When you had the Pac Brake on the 97 how was it connected, was it with a foot switch or does it have a delay ? I am going to purchase a brake for my 96. I am curious on the foot switch if you have to turn it off to change gears, or is there a delay.

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96 2500 4X4, SC,SLT, 12 valve,lost kitty 5SP 3. 54. line-x liner All stock (for now)

 

[PRout]

Dang, I just heard that the BD for a y2k used the microswitch on the pedal... That kinda sucks. Wanted a plugin type.

 

[dieselburner]

Originally posted by dresslered:
Also, maximum braking is not always the best feature. You can really go through rear tires if you drive around empty.

Wow, I just installed a BD and have it set at 60 psi and I haven't yet skidded the back tires with it even in the rain. Is this happening with the other brakes?

 

[Wiredawg]

I have a BD w/ the micro switch and the BD shifter mounted switch. I really like the whole setup. Turning the brake on and off w/ the shifter switch has gotten to be as second nature as shifting. Never drove an 18 wheeler, but I think this is what one would feel like. #ad


Whatever you get, I'm sure you're gonna like the way it brings out the best in the Cummins.

Wiredawg



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2000 4X4 SLT QC 8' bed; 6 spd, 3. 54 ; BD exhaust brake and 4" exhaust syst; TST PM2; Airlift Super Duty rear air bags; RS 9000 shocks; pyro/boost gauges in 2 gauge a-pillar mount; back preasure gauge mounted under dash; KN air filter; Brown's Welding brush/grill guard, rear bumper & headache rack; nerf bars and aluminum roll top rear cover, Warn front receiver and Hadley air horns, 20K Reese hitch.

 

[Happy Camper]

I had the micro switch on the Cummins E-brake on my 97. The 2001. 5 has the BD which has it on the pedal. I have it adjusted so slight pressure will de-activate it so when shifting I leave slight pressure on the accelerator pedal and the brake does not come on. Works for me. No Delay!

 

[TowPro]

I have the BD with microswith for a couple weeks now. I am getting used to just leaving my foot pressure on the fuel pedel when I shift and it will not come on. Plus I am getting used to turning it on and off by lifting my foot. My only problem is the micro switch rattles!

I have an idea of building a circuit that interfaces with the ECM, using an opto issolator to protect the ECM and a relay, but I don't think I need it now that I am learning how to use the fuel pedel to control the brake. I went with the BD because it works better in the RPM band I drive in, 1500-2000.

Plus there is a small delay in the BD because it takes a fraction of a secound for the vacuum to build up enough to close the brake.

 

[Bill Stockard]

ROCKYMNT,

I had Cummins Southern Plains in Fort Worth install the PacBrake on the 97 about a week after I bought the truck. They put the old style microswitch on the throttle linkage out on the front of the engine. The switch out there was always out of adjustment and a real PIA. I complained about it one day to PacBrake and they sent me the microswitch that fits under the accelerator pedal which they had just released. That is what I had on my 97 until I traded for the '00 6 speed. There is a lighted switch on the dash to shut off the brake from operating. No there are no delays on the 12 valve engines. If you want to keep the brake off while shifting gears, just keep a little pressure on the throttle and it will stay off while you shift. Once you have the PacBrake installed you can tell how much pressure to put on the pedal. It shouldn't be enough to even speed up the engine. The linkage on the switch is adjustable for sensitivity.

When I installed the '97 PacBrake on the '00, I had PacBrake send me the ECM kit and the turbo outlet connector which is different on the 24 valve engine.

Bill

 

[BFaoro]

Thanks Bill, that is the exact information I wanted. I am leaning towards the Pac Brake, the local Cummins dealer has them in stock with a good price. Thanks again #ad


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96 2500 4X4, SC,SLT, 12 valve,lost kitty 5SP 3. 54. line-x liner All stock (for now)

 

[dresslered]

Originally posted by dieselburner:
"Wow, I just installed a BD and have it set at 60 psi and I haven't yet skidded the back tires with it even in the rain. Is this happening with the other brakes?"

No, dieselburner this is not happening with the "other" brakes. All exhaust brakes add to the wear of the rear tires! The stopping power comes from the added friction between the rear tires and the pavement. Obviously, there are many factors that contribute to the wear (road conditions, load, etc. ) but backpressure is among the primary. It will not be noticed as a skid (perhaps a chirp at most), but there will be added wear to the tires (no such thing as "free" braking). All I meant by my post is that there are other factors that might be worth considering (of course if I was towing a 5th wheel down through the Sierras, my priorities might change). I commute empty most of the time on a mountain road and sometimes run my truck at maximum GVWR and the Jacob's has supplied more than enough braking for my needs.

 

[ramman]

Don't shy away from a BD brake on my post of brake froze on ,It did happen twice now but I think it might be a freak thing,but I love my 4" remote and could not be with out one now.

 

[PRout]

Well, I went & did it... Installed the BD today w/ the shifter switch.

First impressions are:

1. Using it down a steep slope it did help control speed. The brakes are definitely gonna last longer. Although, its not quite as strong as I expected (havent adjusted it yet, might need to turn it up). Dont know that it'll make alot of difference w/ the trailer adjusted the way it is now.

2. Have a new rattle during shifts (hoping its the microswitch, but sounds like its coming from the outside - quite annoying).

3. Seem to notice a slight loss of power, kinda feels & sounds plugged up, (might just be my imagination).

4. Love the shifter switch!

5. Sounds pretty cool when activated.

6. Took me 4-5 hrs to install. The videos sorta leave out a few minor details (like needing to drill holes for the switch actuator), the pedal switch needed to be adjusted way up in its slots to contact the bar, also its kind of a pain to get into a few places (call me a wuss its ok).

7. It came with EVERYTHING necessary to get it up & running.

8. Quality of the parts are first rate!

9. Love the shifter switch!

10. I think once I get it adjusted & rid of the rattle, its gonna be a great investment.

11. Did I mention... Love that shifter switch!? #ad



Thanks to everyone for your comments. They were very helpful!!

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2k, 30k miles, QC, SB, 4x, 6sp, 3. 54, 285/75r16 bfg/at, stock air cleaner (reliable), silencer ring "in" (runs better), Sunnybrook 28' fiver, 16,780 lbs. 18mpg (unloaded), 12-14 mpg (loaded). VA, DD1's, PS Boost module & elbow, BD brake... also, Nitrous Oxide piped direct into the block (stealth - to keep the warranty), 10 gallon per minute fuel pump, ECM right out of Don Garlit's Top Fueler (he gave it to me) (for letting him ride in my truck), Super Modified DD1 Injectors ("Hand Honed" with a 1/4" reamer & my 12v Makita). More BOMBING to come. .

 

[KPancake]

Shortshift,

When my BD shifter switch was installed there was a rattle that originated from push/pull switch. It wasn't a loud rattle but it did make you wonder what it was. Not sure if it is fixable, but it is so intermittent I just don't worry about it.

 

[TowPro]

I here the shifter switch does rattle. I made my own, and it also rattles. I just but a rubber band around the shifter and switch. My micro switch rattles also. When at lower RPM, foot on the fuel a little, I get a little rattle from under the dash. When it gets warmer, I will look into it.

Originally posted by C Pancake:
Shortshift,

When my BD shifter switch was installed there was a rattle that originated from push/pull switch. It wasn't a loud rattle but it did make you wonder what it was. Not sure if it is fixable, but it is so intermittent I just don't worry about it.