Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) exhaust manifold

[SRehberg]

Well, being the paranoid individual I am, after reading the latest TDR regarding the exhaust manifolds, I checked my '96 (bone stock engine) with 46K on it. The end exhaust mounting bolts were up against the bored holes in the manifold at no. s 1 & 6, and it was easy to see the ports on the manifold were off center to the head ports. The bolts appeared straight, but I figure that is just a time bomb waiting to cause a problem. Any cure other than the ATS 3 piece?



Did the 1st gen. trucks have the same issue or did DC get cheap and change the material in the manifolds on the 2 gen trucks?



I appreciate knowing about the potential problems, but the fixes get expensive after awhile. I checked the Ford PSD forums and they seem to have their share of bugs as well, so it's better to be informed than stranded on the highway somewhere.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

First gen trucks have the same problem. Shop around and find a deal on the ATS manifold.

 

[Dkevdog]

I have heard a few that have oblonged the holes to allow it more shrinkage, but it will only buy you some time. Joe is right, the ATS is really the only cure. Keep in mind that in a worst case, it can break the ears off the head - makes the ATS a cheap insurance policy.



Kev

 

[SRehberg]

I thought about the "quick and dirty" elongating the holes, but it usually comes back to bite in one form or another. I'm going to bite the bullet and get the ATS, now just to find the best price.



Curiosity question, just how far will one of these manifolds shrink? There has to be a point that it quits; anyone seen the max they go?

 

[bmoeller]

Try Mr. Bobs Distributing. Cheapest I've seen so far.

 

[SRehberg]

I checked out Mr. Bob's like you suggested, and he seems less expensive than others. I'll give him a call on Monday and get it ordered. I was checking with my neighbor who has a lst gen truck, and 160K with the stock manifold. It looks like it's doing o. k. , so I guess it's just the luck of the draw.

 

[RVPILOT]

When I installed a new manifold on my 96 it had over 400. 00 miles on it, the manifold showed signs of movement as indicated by the gasket on no 1 cyl was tweaked out a little, I decided to buy a new original from cummings and replace it theorizing that if the original went 4k then the replacement would go another 4k. mabey in retrospect i should have purchased a 3 piece. the new manifold after about 40k miles broke the no 1 stud and showed signs of movement. I replaced the stud and after about another 100k miles everything seems to be ok. I think that you never can count on what happens on one vehicle can be applied to another. At the present time I have over 511. 000 miles on the 96 and haven't done anything to the motor while I have heard stories of major problems with dodges with far less miles than mine, so you never know. Stormy

 

[radixr]

Suggestion.

SRehberg,



If you can afford it, get your new manifold treated with a high-temperature coating before you install it. I got mine done at Jet-Hot and it has held up very well.

 

[SRehberg]

radixr... I have never heard of "Jet-Hot" or even know what it does or where to start to look for a shop that does it. Does this protect the interior of the manifold or?



I don't know how fast these stock manifolds move, but with mine only having 46K on it, it either came from the factory with the bolt holes at No. 's 1 & 6 up against the studs or else it moved quickly.



In line sixes have been around alot of years, and this is the first time I've ever heard of the manifolds causing these kind of problems. Is there any tricks to changing out the manifold that I should be aware of other than just a straight ahead changeout?

 

[Dkevdog]

Try Here for starters. I didn't have mine done but it *supposedly* allows for less resistance in the exhaust path, therby further increasing flow. Performance shops can have it sent out, or you can order direct from ATS and get it done. If nothing else, it does make it look alot better and keeps it looking that way.



As for it being a straightforward install... ..... well I wouldn't know, I paid someone to install mine . Because the ATS is a three piece manifold, alignment to your engine will be specific. Many have acheived success by utilizing the old manifold to create a template, and heating the outside pieces and freezing the inside piece to allow for movement during the process of aligning. This sounded like way too much trouble for me at the time.



Kev

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the Jet-Hot info, the ceramic coating looks like it would keep it looking like new for sometime.



Is the ATS 3piece that tight of a fit between pieces, that it has to be heated/frozen to align it? I assumed (bad thing to do) that the pieces were snug, but still rotatable. I've done the heat/freeze thing with bearings/shafts alot, but once they go back to their original size, they're there. If a person wasn't fast enough getting everything lined up, then things would be stressed in someplaces, possibly causing undue stress on the casting. I don't think I could get the last two pieces up and bolted before they cooled/warmed to their original dimensions.



Is this what everyone has been doing with these?

 

[Bill Lins]

Originally posted by SRehberg

Is the ATS 3piece that tight of a fit between pieces, that it has to be heated/frozen to align it?

Yup. I assembled mine @ room temperature & had to beat it together with a dead-blow mallet. I used never-seize on the joints and measured the spacing of the old manifold. Guess what- the old manifold had shrunk.



If I were to do it again, I would bolt the rear-most part to the head, put the center section in the oven & heat it up, then mount it, and take the front section out of the freezer & mount it.

 

[SRehberg]

I have been in contact with ATS regarding their 3pieced manifold, and have spoken to the sales rep, the owner, and the mechanic that does the installation. They state the procedure is straight forward; first measure the distance needed for the manifod. Then they suggest using a block of wood to rest the center piece on, then using a rubber mallet, tapping the one end piece in. Install the second piece in a similar fashion, getting the alignment of the port flanges somewhere close. As you draw up the bolts, the mechanic says it becomes self-aligning. They stated if it has to be beaten, heated or otherwise, something is wrong. I haven't tried one yet, but will here soon. You would think Cummins could make one that didn't shrink!!

 

[Dkevdog]

While I've never installed one, I have a freind who's installed many. From what he tells me and from what I've read here... ... ... . I understand that they can be a bit of a chore to line them up properly. Not that I'm trying to start :-{} with ATS, but just read the archives about installs right here.



Kev

 

[SRehberg]

I can see where the fit must be snug, otherwise there would be a leak of some degree. I plan on giving it a go, as the alternative is broken studs or even worse, the ears on the head. I was impressed with the help and QUICK response I received from ATS. Not just sales, but the owner himself! I'm thankful a company has designed a cure for this issue; something Cummins should have done from the get-go.