Archived exhaust manifold

[Big White]

help!!!!!!! its sunday night i have a 02 dodge 2500 2 wheel drive everything is stock from the factory. i notice that when i drove the truck that it did not have the power that it should have. upon inspection of the engine i notice that the exhaust manifold was cracked the truck has approx 32,000 miles on it. is there a stronger exhaust manifold that i could put on the truck? if so who sell it,what is there phone number? is this a common problem on these trucks?what can i do to make sure this does not happen again. do i need to replace all the exhaust manifold bolts? i will be taking the exhaust manifold off so if i dont respond to your answers please understand i will get back to everyone as soon as possible. thanks:{ :{ :{ :{ :{

 

[csutton7]

yes--there's a 3pc manifold made by ATS--no not the transmission guys, check out www.piersdiesel.com and call them--chris

 

[ThomasLawrence]

If it's an '02, with 32,000 miles, and it's stock, why not get it replaced under warranty?

 

[bmoeller]

The OEM manifolds are prone to cracking and/or shrinking. The 3 piece has expansion joints to allow movement without those problems. They are also made of better materials.



http://www.mrbobsdistributing.com/ats.htm had a special on the manifolds. Will need to call them for their price. The special was something like $50 or so off list. Don't know if they are still offering that price or not.

 

[rweis]

Make sure you read the ATS manifold threads! Fore warned is fore armed.



Bob Weis

 

[DMC]

Rweis:



Why didn't you just come out and say it? I believe you are refering to the trouble that some have had in getting the three piece assembled and on the truck. If your going to try and help a guy out come out and share what you know. Thats what this board is all about.





Yes do a search for exhaust manifold there is plenty to read there. I think some of the guys talked about sanding the joints down to get them to fit.



No Flames intended



Thanks



Don

 

[rweis]

No flame taken.



The assembly was not a problem. Their instructions were clear and easy to follow.



I ran a thread about 5 pages long about the cap bolts I could not keep tight.



NOT everyone has that problem (not sure why?).



Like not everyone has a lp problem (not sure why there either).



KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! I. E. why these forums are so helpful!



He needs to read the pros and cons and then decide for himself.



Everyone has an opinion about what is best that may or may not be the best for someone elses particular circumstance.



How many (lp, transmission, e brake, tire size, injector, computer chip, e manifold, gauge) threads have you read, then formed an opinion as to what you individually want to do according to your own particular circumstance, budget, time, skills etc?



He did not say anything about reading manifold threads.



My advice was to "get smart" about the problem he is having.



I was trying to just not say "here, this will fix it". I spent more on the mounting system than I spent on the ATS manifold and all of that is in the threads.



Do you have an ATS manifold? Does it stay tight? Have you checked it? I do, no it did not, yes I did, now it does.



Bob Weis

 

[DMC]

B White:



I was just over in the classifieds and saw an exhaust manifold for sale. It was at the bottom on the third or fourth page. $100. 00





R Weis:



I hear ya, on the manifold staying tight. Thats a pain in the ars, not to mention the chance of burning a piston. I think I'll glean something from this after all. Have you tried using locktite on the bolts?



Thanks





Don

 

[rweis]

Don,



There is a fairly long thread I started about using studs. There are several many differences to consider. I'll try to be brief.



The OEM LONG bolts and cover sleeve have a purpose to allow elastic bolt elongation as the manifold grows in thickness, then returns to correct length as manifold cools.



The cap bolts I got with the ATS would work themselves out. What started this thing was one day I was in the engine compartment generally checking and found one of the cap bolts laying on top of the manifold. Checked further and one from underneath was missing. Checked torque and none were holding torque.



I think others have tried safety wiring the cap bolts, using locktite, and maybe a couple of other approaches.



The key I think is the stud / bolt has to remain elastic so it can return to its origional shape, yet stretch when the manifold grows in thickness from the heat cycles. Bolt length, Inconels, ????, something that will stay elastic.



I tried studs with split washers first. Heat took the temper out of the split washers in about a month. Also I torqued the studs to 32# which is close to their elastic limit, then the temp growth pushes them into their plastic limit and they will not return to their origional length, ie will not hold torque.



Then I started the thread to figuer it out. RustyJC knows ALOT about elasticity of metals and I drew on his knowledge and calculations.



The ATS manifold will not allow LONG bolts within elastic limits due to larger passages and casting physical interference with long bolts. At the end of the thread I ended up with a new set of studs (others were into plastic limits) Inconel washers (which are slightly conical and designed to flatten with stress and return to conical as the stress is relieved and can take 2000*) Drake SS nuts & lock nuts so the nuts stay put. Problem is it took 3 Inconel washers per stud $8 @ washer, Drakes were about $8 @, studs $2 @, SS washers $2 @ stud. 12 studs = ~ $450 in washers, studs, nuts. I also used SS washers for the Inconel's to ride on as a replaceable bearing surface instead of directly on the ATS manifold. The torque was 16# on the Drake (10# on the Drake lock nut) so the studs would stay elastic.



The thread explains each twist and turn in detail. Without RustyJC's thermal expansion calculations it would have been impossible.



I have checked the torque twice in about 3 months and it is exactely 16# on every Drake nut and 10# on every Drake locknut. Everything seems to be elastic and expanding and contraction just fine.



It works very well, but pricey.



Do it again? I would use warrantee to replace the OEM manifold as long as I could, then check to see if ATS has a better way at that time. I still like the ATS manifold and would still highly recommend it. Maybe someone will come up with a better way.



I don't think many ATS manifold users have the problem. Not a lot of threads on it. I don't know what those of us that have the problem are doing differently. I don't know, just I had the problem and needed to fix it.



Bob Weis

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I use anti seize and get the bolts good and tight. I check them once in a while. One or two on an end piece may be getting a little loose, usually. Takes quite a while though, if you got the bolts tight enough in the first place, new gaskets, cleaned the port surfaces of the head. I wouldn't sand the ball joints. They are designed to have a press fit. I cheat and use an old 12V head to assemble the manifold, brass hammer to drive in the ends.

 

[csutton7]

if guys are trying to assemble the ATS on the engine they are going about it the wrong way--you have a perfectly good template when you remove the old exhaust manifold-just pound it together with a rubber mallet and use a big block of wood on the other end--and do like j donnelly says--I also used anti sieze on the joints when i assembled mine--the bolts come loose on stock ones also---chris