Exploring garage/shop options - pole barn or not for attached building?

[HoleshotHolset]

Around here, when people put up a shop or a shed - they build a pole barn 9. 8 times out of 10.



Has anyone ever attached a pole barn to a stick-built house? The wife's place is a single-story ranch house without any sort of garage - so to kill two birds with a single shot, I figured I'd have someone build an attached garage/shop instead of a standalone structure.



I really want a frost wall/foundation and a poured floor with radiant heat... I just don't relish the traditional pole barn idea of lumber sitting in the dirt... even if it is surrounded by some cement.



The garage building shenanigans will happen after I sell my place - which if I'm lucky will be in a month or two.



Thoughts, suggestions, etc.



Many thanks,



Matt

 

[sdstriper]

Look into her homeowners insurance, may be cheaper to build unattached.



One way to build unattached and save is using a floating slab, the perimeter is slightly deeper than the rest of the floor. There is no footings, below the frostline type.



I really like the idea of heated floor. Good luck on the sale of your place and the new shop project.

 

[RRees]

I would vote for a stand alone.



Logic: When I turn air compressor on there is more distance and insulation of noise so I don't "disturb" anybody in the house.



I don't have in floor heating. It was an expensive option at the time. I do have heat and water in the garage though. My detached is only 30'x40'. It's pretty well insulated though. But even so, the cement floor is still cold.



Build it the biggest you can build budget wise and lot-wise. They are never big enough.

 

[sdstriper]

Build it the biggest you can build budget wise and lot-wise. They are never big enough.

I'll second that.

 

[Flinty]

I agree with RRees. I have spent many nights till 2-3am running air hammers, engine-driven welders, grinders, starting and turning off the rig I happened to be working on, etc. Just slap a lean-to off the side to keep the frost and snow off and put some distance between your shop and the house.



If I had to build again my shop would have a full bath, in floor heat, built like a pole barn. The only difference is I would set the posts in 4' of concrete with rebar sticking out and bent over then tie the floor into the post pads to prevent heaving. The depth of post hole would depend on soil, I guess, but in Eastern Mont. frost can go 6' in moist clay. Here in Western side of the state 4' is more than enough. I would have no problem tieing a building like this into an existing structure of any kind. Good luck.

 

[DBohl]

Matt, I think it depends alot on the size of the shop, A big shop attached to a house will look a little out of place. I'm sure your wife would have some input as to how big to go if attached. If that's not big enough, then I'd say go with an unattached. A smaller pole shed attached to the house can look nice, they have a wide choice of colors to choose from these days and you could do a brick wainscoating to match the house, if it is a brick ranch that is. I have a 40x56 shed about a 150 ft from the house. Last winter I installed a Central Boiler outdoor wood furnace to heat the shed and the house. I'm currently doing the same for a friend . I do not have in floor heat but that is the way to go. This spring I will be helping another friend do his garage that way. I have a thermal break to keep the frost at bay from my floor, the poles are down 5ft well below the frost line for our area ( I live in WI too. ) I would'nt be too concerned about a pole shed heavying ,the pole shed my dad put up 40 years ago is still standing straight. Take your time and plan it out right, even if it takes an extra year to have enough money, to let your fill settle, to not make decisions based on the weather, etc,etc. If I would have waited untill spring to pour my concrete I would have infloor heat now instead of a water to air heat exchanger. Good luck and have fun with your project, Doug

 

[robertyoke]

Look into her homeowners insurance, may be cheaper to build unattached.



One way to build unattached and save is using a floating slab, the perimeter is slightly deeper than the rest of the floor. There is no footings, below the frostline type.



I really like the idea of heated floor. Good luck on the sale of your place and the new shop project.

I would not pour a "thinken edge slab" and heat it in your climate. (building regulations would most likley not alow it anyway)



you could pour a post tension slab but it would cost almost the same as a footing/wall + slab.



I have never liked pole barns, you don't save much over a stick frame if it is finished inside.



Some of the pole buildings around here have corrugated steel siding because "it was cheaper" yea like 500 bucks and it looks like crap!!

do it right the first time or it will cost more when you want to fix it.

-robert

 

[sdstriper]

They pour floating slabs out here all the time on unattached units.

 

[Loghead]

I'm doing "hazardous" work(welding and cutting) quite often in my garage, so I would hesitate to attach it to my house, mainly for fire hazard considerations. As someone has astutely pointed out, your insurance may be substantially higher if you attach the garage to the house, no matter how you build it.

If it was my money, I'd look into a steel frame building on concrete piers, detached from the house. That way, you'll get the simplicity of a pole building without having to worry that you're feeding termites.

 

[onestackdram]

I have to second the steel framed building. You might be surprised as to how cheap some of them can be build. Especially if you can get a few friends to help you put it up. We helped a guy put one up about 5 years ago, his was being used as a horse barn/arena it was 100x200 and he said it ended up costing him 10k less to do a steel frame with us putting it up vs. a pole barn and paying someone to put it up.

 

[DBohl]

They pour floating slabs out here all the time on unattached units.

Samething around here

 

[robertyoke]

They pour floating slabs out here all the time on unattached units.

on a heated unit? does your area have a building department?(do you have to get a permit?) I have seen buildings on thicken edge pour that were permitted non heated. the home owner then heats it and the freeze and thaw breaks it apart.

I just would not skimp on a foundation on building that is major investment, it too hard and costly to fix later.

-robert

 

[robertyoke]

I have to second the steel framed building. You might be surprised as to how cheap some of them can be build. Especially if you can get a few friends to help you put it up. We helped a guy put one up about 5 years ago, his was being used as a horse barn/arena it was 100x200 and he said it ended up costing him 10k less to do a steel frame with us putting it up vs. a pole barn and paying someone to put it up.

I priced steel when I built my building it was less, but not by much. building very large buildings steel is still less expensive, large like 100'x200' and bigger.

most people don't build personal shops that large, my shop is 40'x80' and people ask what do you need such a large building? I think it could be bigger .

steel over the last couple of years has risen and the buildings that were proposed originally as steel have been changed to wood after bids/costs were considered. I am biding more and more commercial buildings because they are wood. the houses are moving away from steel beams on the stuff that can be engineered for wood.

-robert

 

[Yo Hoot]

You can build a pole building using Permacolumns



#ad




I put pink foam around the floor edges and up the walls. .



#ad

 

[WVanHemert]

Slab on Grade is what we call it up here, and having it heated is quite common up here, a lot of them now use 4 to 6 inches of foam under the concrete to create a thermal break and also utilize foam as a frost break around the perimiter.

I like the idea of steel buildings, I just find finishing them more expensive, they don't seal well around corners so you have to spray foam them and that gets expensive. Insulation in the ceiling area is an issue, and how do you then provide a fire break to the insulation, so now you are hanging gyproc from the ceiling.

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

 

[zstroken]

Check your building codes. Those are not allowed where we live.

 

[onestackdram]

well one of the reasons i reccomend steel frame, is i think of being able to hang weight from it, eg. hoists and the like. I just don't trust a woodframe truss to hang a fully dressed diesel engine from. I know most people don't have that issue, but there are other things to hang in a shop that are equally heavy.

 

[jmorse]

My shop is a pole building with a show room attached to one end. The show room is stick built and on a foundation. I have an outside boiler w/ heat in the floor. I have never had any problems with the building. Shop was built in 2001 and show room in 2003. I did learn one thing when I built my first pole building back in '93, that is to wrap rebar(U shaped) around outside of the posts @ the bottom and bring it back into the cocrete. This really stiffens the building and you won't get a crack opening up between poles & concrete. Jim

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Whoa! Thanks, guys!

There's TONS of great info in here.



Building a detached garage for fire hazard reasons (to avoid burning down the house if the garage goes up... ) doesn't fly too well in my book. If the garage is ~20' from the house and it goes up - the house is gonna go with it... it's just going to take slightly longer.



I've pretty much come to the conclusion that structures in my neighborhood are going to be fully involved and then some before the volunteer FD can make their way out there... and then they won't have any water outside of a few thousand gallon tanker to put it out. I fully intend on hanging 5/8" firecode sheetrock on the walls/ceilings in this shop/garage. (I bought a cheap sheetrock lift for the house project and I think it'll do 15' ceilings... )



I want to have one section for the daily drivers and another section as a repair bay and welding/fabrication area. This will keep all the dust and mess out of the portion of the garage used daily.



My biggest argument for an attached structure is the daily commute and grocery shopping trips. Walking to/from the vehicles, bringing in bags of goodies with the rain/snow flying everywhere is not my cup of tea.



The neighbor has a 40'x60' pole barn and that just won't look right attached to the house, so I'm thinking of a '4 or 5 vehicle' garage... which will be big... but not huge. If I build anything bigger, I'll have too many unfinished projects hanging around. I'd like to have one bay where a 2-post lift could be installed - this might be hard to accomplish within the constraints of a 'normal' looking garage.



I've yet to talk to any contractors on this - but I'm learning a TON from reading the threads people have posted on the TDR regarding their shops. I'm very envious of them. I'm going to have to be pretty creative with the space and in the end I believe it is possible to satisfy most of the requirements.



Thanks again,



Matt



I've attached a very crude drawing...

 

[sdstriper]

Might want to consider a truss system that will accomodate storage too. Load bearing truss? Not sure of the technical term, you get it though.