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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Failed Map Sensor

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I went to Boulder City, NV last week to have Joe Donnelly's friend replace my clutch. Everything went well and the new LuK clutch works fine.



On the trip home pulling my faithful old Avion TT weighing 8500# I became aware of a loss of power. The truck bogged at low rpm on launch. The following day I noticed I had to downshift on grades that I would have normally soared over in overdrive. I also noticed that turbo boost at all engine speeds seemed lower than normal and full boost would not occur until 2100 rpm, much higher than usual. Full boost was only 18 psi instead of the normal 20. 5 psi. Under light throttle my gauge was showing no or very low boost.



I checked and tightened all the turbo band clamps. None were really loose. When I returned home I called Bill Stockard for advice. Bill suggested changing the fuel filter and looking for evidence of contaminated fuel. I replaced the filter which had only 4k miles on it and found no evidence of contamination in the filter I removed.



Early this morning I took the truck to a local Dodge dealer suspecting another failed transfer pump. The dealer mechanic checked the flow rate but not lift pump output pressure and checked for ECM codes. He advised me that no codes were set and lift pump flow rate met specs. He told me nothing was wrong with the truck. I left unhappy.



I called Bill Stockard again and also called Cummins Southern Plains in Amarillo. Both told me to have the dealer check lift pump pressure, not flow rate, and also suggested a careful inspection of the turbo plumbing for leaks. When I returned I got a cold shoulder from the dealership. I was told that STAR has told dealerships to check lift pump flow rate but not to check for pressure. They didn't want to do anything more. I "explained" to the service manager that the truck engine was in warranty, it wouldn't run, and told him to "fix it. " He realized I was serious so they ran flow and pressure checks and put a probe in the turbo lines to check boost. They also ran a 40 to 60 mph road acceleration test. I was told that lift pump pressure was 14 psi, boost was 20 psi, and the truck passed the acceleration test. It still ran terrible.



I called and talked to Bill Stockard again and also Joe Donnelly. Both suggested the MAP as a possible cause of low boost pressure and late occuring full boost. I returned to the dealership and asked the young tech to check it.



BINGO! The MAP sensor output was very low. He replaced it and the truck runs strong again. The bad news was it cost me $275 parts and labor.



The moral of the story is that if I had not had gauges installed to prove what the seat of my pants was telling me and TDR friends to advise me, I would have had to learn to tow with a truck that pulled like a weak Powerstroke or Duramax or trade it for a 2004. 5.



Thanks to TDR friends Joe Donnelly and Bill Stockard for the advice and suggestions that allowed me to confidently push the dealership to diagnose and repair the problem.



As a side note, STAR was the enemy in this matter, not a friend. The STAR rep speaking by phone to my mechanic told the mechanic to be very suspicious of a truck with Boost and EGT gauges, to look for evidence of unauthorized modification. He also stupidly told the dealership that it didn't matter what rpm full boost occurred, that all Cummins engines were different. Obviously the guy doesn't own a Dodge-Cummins and didn't know what he was talking about.



Harvey
 
That's interesting Harvey, surprised it didn't throw any codes as I had one MAP sensor go and it constantly threw low voltage codes. It never had any performance issues though. If it wasn't for the codes it threw I would have never known there was a problem. I bought a new one from the dealer and replaced it myself, kinda a PITA to reach but not that bad. My new plug lasted about 6 months and again the codes came, including codes that included a fault at the VP44 :eek: . In a last ditch effort, I greased all the MAP connections real good with dielectric grease. It's been over a year now and I am still code free :cool: .



Just a note to those that have fueling boxes and are getting any codes related to the MAP. Don't be afraid to use the D. grease on all connections, it seems to make a difference on my truck. My only guess is that I was getting moisture in the harness ?



Scott W.
 
Scott,



I'm also surprised that a code was not set but I don't know enough about the engine's electronics to know whether that should have happened.



I am disappointed that a trained dealership mechanic apparently didn't know enough to check and eliminate the various circuits and components that could cause the problem. Bill and Joe knew the MAP sensor could cause the problem and suggested checking it, why didn't the technician? Maybe the fact that the engine was capable of developing near normal boost, but only at a much higher than normal rpm fooled him. Neither the service manager or the mechanic own a Dodge-Cummins truck so I guess they could not distinguish between a truck that runs, and a truck that runs like it was intended to.



The mechanic confided to me that TDR members are considered suspect and are frequently mentioned in Dodge training classes he has attended. I can understand mechanics being warned about highly modified trucks but I suspect some of that attitude results from the fact that TDR members are harder to please and frequently know more than the dealer's service department about their trucks.



If similar symptoms ever reoccur I'll go to Cummins or one of the MOPAR parts discounters and buy another MAP sensor and install it myself. This time I didn't have a deep socket large enough to fit and was up against a time consideration. My wife and I are planning to hook up and travel to San Diego Friday when she begins her Christmas vacation.



Harvey
 
Harvey,



Thanks for the vote of confidence. :D :D Glad I was able to help you out... any time. Have a safe trip to CA



Hey, I might need some Airstream/Avion advise someday!



Bill
 
low or late boost pressure

I find your thread interesting. I purchased a used older (3 position) Edge Comp box and installed it including the VP44 wire. It does not seem to work at lower speeds/RPM's. I have ordered new gauges that should be here today. I have 292k on my orginal engine (98. 5) and question my map sensor. What boost pressures should I expect with and without the box on.

Thanks!

Alan
 
Alan,



If the question is directed to me, I'm sorry, I can't answer. I haven't had a box on my truck.



From what I've heard, all 24 valve HO Cummins engines produce about 20. 5 or 21 psi full boost. I assume that all 24 valve engines including SO produce similar maximum boost.



When my truck was operating with a bad MAP Sensor it could still manage 18 psi full boost but not at 1600 rpm which is where the engine is rated to produce full power. In fact, it was producing very little boost until after 2000 rpm.



Harvey
 
I had a sudden loss of power under normal acceleration from a stop sign which turned out to be a bad MAP sensor. I was able to show the dealer by taking a picture of my readout from the screen of my PDA with a Cummins QuickCheck Software/hardware setup.

It would go from 15lbs boost to over 50lbs boost on the scanner.

Dealer changed the MAP sensor under warranty and the problem was gone.

Bob in Sacto
 
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