Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fake Cummins Engines

[DieselBuzz]

My '93 blew the rings on the 6th cylinder. I bought what I thought was a new Cummins engine from Diesel Head and Parts of Knoxville, TN. Well, I'm a sucker. The motor from what I can tell was made in China, at least that is was the crank says. I called the company and they won't even tell me who really made it ("they are not sure"). So, if you buy anything from these people make 100% sure you know what you are getting. I would prefer if they were boycotted by the TDR membership but I at least want to warn people not to trust them.

Thanks Art

 

[JTBMC]

Cant you take the thing back,

Here in Mississippi there are several Junk Yards with low mileage used Cummins engines starting at 4500 to 6500 Bucks both 12 & 24 Valve with 90 day Warrentys.

TJ

 

[J DeMaio]

Art,



Is this the replacement engine you just purchased for the Dodge after the original blew up? If so, that's horrible! Go back to the seller and demand that he give you a refund or you will ruin his sales. Sorry to hear about your bad times



John

 

[Bill Lins]

You might want to contact Cummins- I'm sure they would want to know if their products are being counterfeited. They might give you some backup with the outfit that sold the "generic" engine to you also. Good luck.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

WISE up guys!



Go to the Cummins site and check for a listing of their WORLD WIDE manufacturing and rebuilding sites, and you will see that the engines used in our trucks are made in MANY foreign lands - INCLUDING Asia and Europe! Cummins main, and perhaps ONLY B5. 9 REbuilding site is in Mexico!



WHERE the engine is made is relatively UNimportant - AS LONG AS the basic standards of Cummins materials, tolerances and workmanship are maintained!

 

[DieselBuzz]

Get this there is a "25% restocking fee is due prior to shipping. " That comes to $1150 to pay to start over, not including the hundred or two for shipping.

I did not want to believe that it was a copy. I thought it was a rebuild that was done in China. I realized it was a copy when I dressed the long block out. The engine would not fit with the oil pan that it came with, so, when I put my old original one on I saw the Chinese crank.

I did e-mail Cummins last night. I think it will take them awhile to respond. In the mean time I need to get my truck going.

Art

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

For any Cummins owners thinking their engines are "Made ONLY in the USA", read THIS and weep!



Cummins worldwide:





NOW, does this mean *I* would WANT or REQUEST a Cummins engine for MY truck from somewhere outside the US?



NO...



But as stated above, if strict Cummins standards are met, I wouldn't automatically PANIC over a foreign-build engine, either!



After all, I have a Mazda 323 and a Camaro SS that's ALL "foreign built" - as well as MANY complex state-of-the-art products built in MANY parts of the world - and (gasp!), they ALL seem to function quite well - and most were a bargain in terms of $$$ as well... .



We did it to ourselves, when we stood quietly by and let our politicians create legislation that made it highly profitable for our USA company's EXPORT *our* jobs overseas where they could realize better prifitability due to a cheaper workforce and looser environmental laws... It's a good, or BAD thing, depending on YOUR personal political views as to preserving our country's sovereignty - and whether it was YOUR job that left the country in the process!

 

[DBR]

Well said Gary!

 

[Scot]

Are these the engines that are sold on EBAY? They sell 6bt, 4bt and heads.

 

[DieselBuzz]

This company did have one of these engines on E-Bay a little while ago. I would have more confidence in the engine but there is no plate on the front gear case. No maker, no serial number. No one saying that any standards were held. I referred to the engine as a Cummins in an e-mail when I wanted to match it to my truck. No effort was made to tell me it was anything else. My wife drives a Honda. I'm fine with that especially since I thought it was a Honda before we bought it. These are my issues.

Art

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMMmmm - well Art, if that engine was represented and bought as being a genuine Cummins product, and there aren't any clear markings or tags anywhere on it to prove it as being genuine Cummins, maybe there IS an "Asian Cummins Blackmarket"!



And YEAH, that would tighten MY jaws a bit too! Wouldn't be the FIRST time the Asians forged/copied popular and accepted products they could cheapen and sell to the unsuspecting...

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by DieselBuzz

My '93 blew the rings on the 6th cylinder. I bought what I thought was a new Cummins engine from Diesel Head and Parts of Knoxville, TN. Well, I'm a sucker. The motor from what I can tell was made in China, at least that is was the crank says. I called the company and they won't even tell me who really made it ("they are not sure"). So, if you buy anything from these people make 100% sure you know what you are getting. I would prefer if they were boycotted by the TDR membership but I at least want to warn people not to trust them.

Thanks Art

I would not be much concerned about the crank. A LOT of crank castings and forgings are coming out of China these days. Several OEM's are using China made raw parts and finishing them in their own plants. A local transmission guy says that he's now buying a lot of discontinued older truck parts like transmission gears and shafts and bearings and such that American makers discontinued, but now are being produced in China... They are really cheap, look slightly crude, but seem to be more than adequate. Told me it was the only source for several parts in my NP201 Transfer case.



HOWEVER, what you do need to be concerned about is what engine you do have. There should be a cummins part # on the head, cast into it, if memory serves. Also, you should be able to identify casting marks for the block and other parts.



It would seem a little strange that this engine not be a real Cummins, but a knock-off. Frankly, the Chinese engines I've seen are so crude as to be obvious immediately. You should be able to tell if it's real by casting quality, casting markings, and the overall look of the block and head.



It is common for rebuilders to remove the ID tags from a Cummins engine and put their own on... BUT, there is always evidence that a tag used to be there - like, the holes for the fasteners for the tag will be there and be used, just no tag, or a tag of similar size or shape from someone else in place of theirs. Reason being, Cummins wants you to know it wasn't a Genuine Cummins rebuild.



If there is nothing... no holes, no nothing, where the tag should be on the gear case, I would be very very suspicious.





Of course, I recall GM having discovered that some Asian or Eastern European company was creating knock-off Target engines a few years back. The entire engine was foreign, and the parts NOT interchangeable, only the external bolt-ons were the same, and it was the same external dimensions. Seems that some mechanics were going nuts trying to find parts... And discovering that everything inside was not REALLY from GM.

 

[DieselBuzz]

For all I can tell it is a new engine. The casting quality in my opion is not as good as my previous Cummins. All of the seals have some sort of Chinese on them, there is even some in the casting over the oil filter. At this point I have been able to bolt everything on w/o a problem. I don't remember where the #s are on the head. As far as the ID tag, there are two new pins in the housing but no evidence of any tag being there(the casting looks new). I never suspected that anyone would attempt to copy this engine so it took me seeing the crank to question it. I really did not want to believe that this could happen. Now I could pick it out of a line-up in a heart beat. My point is to share what I have experienced so it may prevent others from being dissapointed.

Art

 

[jwilliams3]

A Cummins ISB engine that is made for DaimlerChrysler will

have a block cast in Mexico or Brazil and the Crankshaft will be forged in Brazil.

The head is usually cast in Mexico if I remember correctly.

I assume these suppliers were the same for the 6BT.

ISB's for Chrysler are assembled in Columbus Indiana, where Cummins is headquartered.



If your looking for used Cummins engines, parts, try Diesel Recon.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Interesting!!

JWilliams3,

I tour the Signature 600 plant and ISB plant this summer and was given the name of the casting/supplier in Indiana for the 600 seris and I thought the ISB, I did see the new ISB block that was cast without the side cover plates. Are you sure that the blocks are cast in Mexico? Inquiring minds want to know.



Dieselbuzz,



See my previous post on the new "'98" complete engines for sale with turbo, injection-vacumn-powersteering pump, yada, yada. You can quickly drop in a brand new engine plus accessories for junkyard $$'s.

 

[illflem]

#ad

 

[jwilliams3]

RogerRodbolt,

Yes, B series are Cast in 2 different countries, Mexico and Brazil, and Machined In the U. S. , and I know this for fact.

For DaimlerChrysler application.

I cannot comment on names of suppliers, or any suspicious looking engine blocks you may have seen at the plant.

 

[DieselBuzz]

Newer Motor

I did find out that Cummins is trying to unload may new "98" surplus engines for cheap. I was just overwhelmed at the idea of all of the "98"s electronics that would have to be wired into my 1st gen. I don't like wiring. It's next to voodoo for me.

Illflem

That is one nasty looking head, what happened to that?

Art

 

[illflem]

That's the result of a faulty low reading post turbo pyro on mildly bombed 24 valve. More here.

 

[Bill Lins]

Re: Newer Motor

Originally posted by DieselBuzz

I did find out that Cummins is trying to unload may

new "98" surplus engines for cheap.

Are you referring to 12 or 24 valve engines? How much is

"cheap" and where are they available? TIA