FASS System

[Pit Bull]

How much does this cost? Does it come with all of the parts and instructions needed for installation? The web site does not give much information.

 

[Ncostello]

FASS



Click on that for description of what you get. Looks like its complete for $589... wiring, hose, bracket and all.

 

[CWebster]

All fittings, lines, and wiring harness came with mine, although I purchased mine thru http://www.enterpriseengine.com. The instructions are kind of general, but there is enough to decipher whats going on. Mounting is the most difficult part, running the lines and hooking up the wiring harness is very simple. The only deviation I had was the line drawing from the tank comes around to the back of the unit, and in that bend the hose wanted to collapse (sucking fuel). I replaced it with a metal line.



HTH

Chris Webster

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by Ncostello

I think Illflem said even on cold winter days his fuel would get nice and toasty after running. I cant exactly recall but I thought he said nearly 100 degrees after a while.

Excatly what I am saying (I remember illflem comments on fuel temp too )



Why would I want to run coolant through this unit? It seems I would prefer cooler fuel than hotter fuel. 180-190 degree coolant sure wouldn't help.

 

[CWebster]

An inline shut off on the coolant line (like Ncostello had mentioned in an earlier post) would give you the option for heat or not. Also, I think that eventhough you are running 180* coolant through the unit, you would not get 180* of heat transfered to the fuel, especially if it is pumping through the unit at x number of GPH. I want to hook it up, with an inline shut off, so if I do need it I have it.



I would like to know where the info is on fuel temperature vs. performance, does anybody have a link?



The only big unknown, I think, is if your fuel is getting cold enough to gell, how long will it take to correct the situation with heat from the coolant line? Will it (engine) run until you get hot coolant? Really, there is no difference between the stock system and the FASS system (plumbing), other than the pump is mounted on the framerail instead of in the engine compartment. You might get some insulation from the outside weather being in the engine compartment, but after sitting out all night I would think that the temperature would be the same anywhere on the vehicle.



Chris

 

[TomGolden]

This talk of fuel temperatures is getting me confused. About 6 - 8 months ago, the topic of fuel temperature came up, and I posted a few thoughts on installing a fuel cooler in either the intake or return line. Several very knowledgable members responded that warm fuel was actually much better, although at this moment I can't recall their detail reasons. So now to hear folks say cool fuel is better make me

 

[Cooker]

TomGolden,



I do remember the conversation, but I do not remember the outcome. I thought cooler fuel was the way to go. I was going off what Brad at FASS mentioned that cooler fuel is better. He mentioned warmer fuel has more air.



I agree 180 degree coolant will not yield 180 degree fuel due to flow.



Here is one link;

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75088&highlight=fuel+cooler



Here is another one:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62965&highlight=fuel+cooler



Tom here is your thread:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52349&highlight=fuel+cooler



Here is another good one:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...perpage=15&highlight=fuel cooler&pagenumber=2



I have got to run right now, but I would like to get to the bottom the hot fuel/cold fuel idea.



Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Ncostello]

Oh nooo... another gauge... fuel temperature!!

 

[Hohn]

BOT-- Back On Topic

I saw the FASS at A&M diesel in Macon. Allen there is a CTD guy, and was trying to figure out how to install the unit on his truck.



It felt VERY beefy and well-made. i think it will ultimately show to be the best (not cheapest) solution to the LP woes.





As for all the benefits they claim for the system, those are the result of eliminating aeration and cavitation in the fuel. With no air dissolved, you get finer atomization. not to mention that your high pressure injection lines will not be eaten away by cavitation.



The solid FP and easy filter changes are just bonuses. The system's main purpose is to eliminate dissolved air.



The idea of the FASS is a good one, and I would spend the money on one if a had the dough. Unfortunately, the Dewalt D706 miter saw I just bought emptied my tool AND truck savings...



That, and the next major purchase WILL be a T-rex setup.



HOHN

 

[lmills]

well, cooler fuel is probably better on the VP-44 since it is cooled by the diesel, but the warm fuel probably atomizes better producing more power

 

[nickleinonen]

hot fuel is good for power. i think the top limit was 160°f. higher than that and the benifets drop off...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Fuel Temps

From what I gather. . .



Warm/hot fuel improves combustion efficiently. But. . . cool fuel keeps the VP-44 happy.



Does this dilemma have a happy medium?



As to the benefits listed for the FASS system, they are mostly based on the dissolved air concept:



Improved atomization means improved power, efficiency, quieter operation (because combustion starts easier = less clatter), cooler EGTs (due to less fuel needed to do same work), etc.



IMO dissolved gases may exist, but not enough to make much perceptible difference. When the fuel gets low in the tank and sloshes & foams up then it's probably quite beneficial to remove aeration.



Vaughn

 

[CWebster]

I agree with everyones comments on the air seperation ability of the unit being one of the major features. But, I think that in the Dodge/Cummins application not only do you get those benefits (air seperation, better atomiztion, etc. , of which I honestly have not noticed a difference), you get the added benefits of durability, easy access, and you overcome one of the obstacles of the factory design - pushing fuel instead of sucking it. If you look at it that way, as opposed to its air seperation ability, it becomes a great solution to a large problem - and you get the air seperation ability to boot. As always, though, time (and winter) will tell.



I do have one question, though. If I add the coolant line to the unit and back, do you think that I will have a problem with an inline shut off due to the fact that if I open the shut off and flow coolant to the unit I am adding capacity to the system without adding fluid? I do not think we are talking a large amount of volume, but I do not have any experience with coolant levels and there effects. I think it would draw from the reserve, but what will happen if I open the shut off and flow coolant, and then close the shut off? Will the fluid I just added go out the overflow? If so, then I would not want to do that ( I would be smelling hot coolant all of the time and freakin' out , needlessly) Any thoughts?



Chris Webster

( I ,love, comma's)

 

[Ncostello]

Just use some smaller diameter hydraulic type hoses with JIC (AN) type fittings on them. Most any hyd hose is compatible with coolant and the super duty hyd hose wont need replaced anytime soon. Plus its tough for under truck use.



The volume in something like I have in mind would be very minimal. Once you add the extra coolant for the hose it wont matter. If the valve is off the hose remains full and holds its volume. If you open the valve the fluid flows through. It is its own reservoir. Add till the bottle fill line is reached and maintained and I think you'll be fine.

 

[CWebster]

I didn't think there would be enough volume in those lines to create problems but, for the sake of argument, would the coolant system scavenge from the aux line when the shut off was closed? And if it did, would it it create an aeration situation? I have no idea, but I have learned a lot about the effects of aeration ( or cavitation) on engine components and it can really be a big problem . Right Ford guys?



Chris Webster

 

[Ncostello]

Without an indepth analysys of the exact system I dont know. If your worried about that put a valve where the line comes from the block and one where it comes back into the block. that way you'll completely seal off the coolant in the circuit. Then maybe once a month in the summer... turn them on for a day to recirculate the coolant.



Our fire truck (ISC) does this. It has two valves at the engine. The caterpillar truck has only one where it comes back into the block. Then it wont pull from that side and suck it dry.

 

[canblue]

Dual systems?

Would there be any benefit to keeping the old system, pump and fuel filter and installing the FASS? I like the idea of the electric fuel heater in the stock unit -- only works when required as oppossed to a cock valve to turn on and off the water flow to the FASS heating system? If keeping the stock system is a good thing, kind of a backup system , how easy would it be to connect the FASS to it? Only wondering out lound here.

 

[Ncostello]

You could do that... but the pressure would probably be up there. Plus the electric heater up on the stock setup wont stop fuel from waxing up in the FASS back there on the cold harsh frame area.



PS: The benefit of the FASS is that you actually get to lose the stock setup. Keeping it to me would be a dis-benefit.

 

[CFAR]

I case anyone is interested the lowest price I have found (haven't made up my mind yet) is piers $549

 

[jwinnie]

Question:

Say I put in the FASS system and a year or two down the road the FASS pump fails. Can I buy just the pump or am I up the creek and have to buy a whole unit?? $$$$$