Finally fanless!

[Cooker]

Well I finally got the fan off today. After trying the methods mentioned on other threads, I still couldn't get the dumb thing off.



The drift and hammer method seems to work for most, but not for me. Maybe I wasn't using a big enough hammer , also I really didn't feel comfortable beating on the nut.



I used a chain wrench (I hadn't seen this method mentioned before, and if it was I am pissed at myself for missing it). With very little force the nut loosened right up.



I was looking for one to purchase, but I couldn't come up with one here locally (at least not on a Saturday), so I ended up renting one at Home Depot for $6. This will definitely be a new addition to the toolbox ASAP.



If anyone is interested in purchasing one here are a few places online to pick it up:



http://buy.snapon.com/catalog/pro_d...Chain+Wrenches&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43346



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42717



http://www.sears.com/sr/product/sum...0&vertical=SEARS&bidsite=null&pid=00955713000



I hope this might help someone out down the line.

-Ryan





BTW - Special thanks to CPFF for the KDP jigs.

 

[Don M]

I took my fan off and the engine noise decreased a bit. I currently have it off and dont tow whenits off. The temp yesterday was around 75. It does not get hot without it. In the summer I put it back on. Around here (DFW) we get started warming up around March, heck one year we got to 95 in Feb. YUK!



I did not notice a HP increase at all. I hear something around 4HP is all the dyno showed for Joe D at 600HP. This could be due to many factors like the amount the viscous clutch was locked in and the 600HP level may not feel the parasitic load. I actually dont know that for fact. 4HP may be 4HP at any power level.



The 25 HP increase that some claim sounds too good to be true to me.



Don~

 

[drawson]

On my truck I showed as high as 19 HP more w/o the fan. Here is some data I got last year... . Temp was measured with a lazer thermo.



Fan Clutch Temp HP lose

50 Deg F = 8

70 Deg F = 5

120 Deg F = 2

150 Deg F = 12

190 Deg F = 19



These where using Base numbers w/o fan then installing the fan and running it again. I used an propane tourch to heat the fan clutch. After the testing the fan was removed again and it dyno'd 2 HP more than it had right before.



All this data was on a Mustang Dyno. One Question for you computer dudes on this page that we write all my numbers are lined up great but when it comes up in the post there all bunched together?????

 

[illflem]

I've never checked the HP draw of the fan but from the sound and feel of it the viscous drive seems to thicken below 25° and fully lock up below 0°. Could this be why our trucks run so cold in cold weather? Drawson's data seems to indicate thickening at 50°. Cummins says at full lockup fan draws 23 HP. Taking off the fan is the best winter mod for anyone in the north. I only notice the power increase while accelerating, not cruising.

 

[C Schomer]

Darn, I was just at work and forgot to grab my chain wrench! I'm going to try that - sometime. I can believe the 23 hp draw - that's a big blade. It would be WAY more if it weren't for the radiator in front of it. When you restrict the inlet of a prop blade, load goes down. 50 sounds right for the clutch to get stiff. I cut one apart years ago and it had some THICK lube in it! On cool days, I can hear mine run until I drive a couple blocks. Then it brakes loose and quiets down. Craig

 

[JohnE]

I thought it was imagination, but after pulling my fan the engine ran colder. The only thing I can guess is the added loading of the fan helped warm the engine.



Ryan;

Chain wrench idea looks good. I assume this was to hold the pulley from turning while you wrenched on the fan nut? I used water pump pliers to hold my fan pulley.



Love that silence



-John

 

[Cooker]

John,

After driving around a little more in ~35 degree weather, I think the truck may take a little longer to come up to temp as well (I think you might be right with the load of the fan helping the truck warm up a little better). I thought it was just my imagination as well. After it is warm though the temp hold more consistent and it a little warmer on the gauge. This is my first day with it off so a little more driving is necessary for me to really come to any conclusions.

 

[pwknapp]

removing fan clutch

Lost fan clutch lockup towing load from Lousiana to Arizona during 90 deg weather. Bought fan cclutch in Amarillo and used 2lb hammer(aka Harley speed wrench) and large crescent to remove clutch. One good whack on end of snug wrench knocked nut loose enough to remove by hand.

 

[illflem]

Don't think I can agree with the engine running cooler without the fan load theory. It may be possible with the truck sitting at idle but once you start moving a 8k truck the fan HP load becomes minuscule. This isn't considering the full fan load that may be caused by thick due to cold fan oil, but that doesn't last long before engine heat thins the oil out. Try some winter inserts with fanless for the best results. Anyone know what the hp load of the alternator is with the brights on, bet it might be up there.

 

[Cooker]

Bill,

My inital driving impressions were as such. I'm sure I will feel differently after I put some more miles on fanless. I agree it doesn't seem like the fan would put enough load on the engine to help it warm up, but it did seem like it had an impact yesterday.



I know you have an intake air temp sensor. I'm sure this helps you determine which combo of winter front is best.



What combo of winter fronts have you found to work best while running fanless in the winter? Grill covers or blocking the radiator between the radiator and intercooler, or both?



How valuable do you think an air intake temp gauge is? I kind of liked the new steering wheel mount from Geno's and I was thinking about an air intake temp gauge there. This BOMBing addiction I have is very expensive



Thanks again for the help,

Ryan

 

[drawson]

Intake air temp

illflem put his air temp gauge in first, then I followed after seeing his data just to find mine almost exactly the same. My gauges are out right now. I am revamping the set up and with two gauges I will have air temp at the A/F, Pre- intercooler, and Post- itercooler. I'm hoping to have this up and running this week so I can get some data before putting on the Piers HX-40 I ordered yesterday.



I am also probibly going to be taking the Psychotty housing off to try and bring my intake temps up some this winter.

 

[illflem]

Ryan, I've found that the Lund inserts w/ fanless work great. Eric B's should be the same. Cardboard on the radiator fanless gets the intake temp too high, you'd never know by looking at the coolant temp though. An intake temp gauge isn't necessary at all, it's just fun. I wouldn't have done it except that it's also my AT temp gauge, $20 for a second sender, switch and wire was all it took along with tapping the manifold. You do need a gauge that will measure down to 0 though, mine is 0 - 300°.



Dee, I'm jealous about your future setup, can't wait to see the numbers you get out of it. Scott told me himself that the Physcotty probably wouldn't be good for winter operation. Wonder if any of the BHAF guys have an intake temp gauge to see what's up with it's temps. EGTs aren't a very good indication.

 

[JohnE]

intake manifold temps

I'm still debating the intake temp questions.



Cummins makes CNG (compressed natural gas) variants of the ISC and ISL engines. They recently went to a completely new series for the gassers and intake manifold temperature is a very much a serious issue with these engines. We had to add a over ride control to the hyrdaulic fan drive that goes by intake manifold temperature. I'll ask if the new emission ISC diesel (EGR) will have the same requirements.



Everyone comments on the silence of removing the fan. I feel it it makes noise it must be sucking hp. Going down the road the temperature gauge cycles much slower fanless. If the fan only adds unwanted cooling it should keep the thermostat cycling less, not more than fanless?



I did find the way to really get things warm is to idle the truck with the A/C running (defrost mode). I disabled my auto A/C the next day after that BF.



I'll report back after adding the new Eric B winter fronts this week. I lost my old set made from leftover paneling, somehow.



Coldly (ESPAR quit on me this weekend)

-John

 

[ramman]

What happens to the A/C head pressures when in defrost mode when ideling in town while fanless?

 

[drawson]

I run all winter with my A/C relay out. I am set up with electric fans that come on with the A/C but I found that if I started off in the AM with the defroster on it took longer to warm up. I haven't had any problem running with the relay out but HemiDart had a problem last year doing that. The defroster work good here in Utah but might not in humid climate. Running the A/C dry the air.

 

[Cooker]

I am currently running with the cardboard between the rad. and intercooler (but will be taking it out in the AM after Bill's post, How hot do intake temps get with this setup Bill?). I noticed I can't idle the truck for too long after it has reached operating temp. In just a couple minutes temp reached to just over 190. I wasn't too concerned, but it took a little while after moving again to cool it off. I hope after I remove the cardboard, this problem is solved.



Eric B's fronts are on the way so one problem is solved.



I forgot to remove my A/C relay and ran the defrost. Coolant temp got up there (over 190) dispite the fact I was running down the highway at 70 in 35 degree weather.



Do you remember what kind of problem Hemi had after reinstallation of the A/C relay?



Once again, thanks for the replies.

Ryan

 

[illflem]

My intake temps were around 140° with the cardboard. I think Hemi's problem was slower defrost without the AC, not a problem in the west or in very cold temps since the humidity is lower below freezing. I like defrost without AC much better, it isn't so cold and melts ice off the windshield faster. Modifying the fan switch is great (also free, takes less than an hour) because it gives you the option of AC or not. If you are moving it's no problem with the AC and no fan even with a winter front. Ryan, the cardboard probably contributed to your higher coolant temp with the AC on while moving, the cardboard will also raise your AT temp.



John, I think the intake temp may be important on a 24 valve also. I know the intake temp on them is sent to the PCM and can be read with a scan tool, it may just be for the intake heaters though. I've wondered if part of the reason that fanless is quieter is that the fan blows the engine noise towards the cab. I guess sound can be blown, the wind does it.



Too bad about your Espar, I've heard they have plugging problems.

 

[Cooker]

Bill,

Thanks for all the great info! I'll pull the cardboard out for now and see how things go.



John,

Sorry to hear about your Espar. It must be a real PIA having the darn thing not work now after working so hard on the install.



Ryan

 

[WDaniels]

I've replaced my fan on both my rigs with Hortons and used an old wrench I got at a pawn shop that deals alot in tools. I believe its a 1 and 7/16 inch. I opened up the jaws a tad for a better fit and it works great.

In regards about the viscous fluid coupling, it's great for the lower 48, but up here where it gets real cold that fan is solid coupled and really keeps your engine cold. Not that they run real warm anywise. After removing the old fans I noticed a 1 to 3 mile per gallon increase.

WD.