First big load using a gooseneck - fuel mileage problems

[rickhans]

With thanks to others on this forum for their answers, I now have a 16k 20'/5'dove tail trailer with load range G tires to carry the 13,400# man lift I purchased. Having towed with bumper pulls for 35 years, a gooseneck takes some getting used to.

I drove to Houston with the trailer empty (weighs about 2400 pounds - single wheels - ) and got 12 mpg at 70 mph. My milaege has been staying at about 16. 5 without towing for some time now at 70 avg, and 15 in the city. At one time I got 17 and 19 mpg. I only have 41k miles and I have read many topics on this forum about fuel milaege.

I loaded the Condor and drove back to Dallas, again running 70 most of the time, once and a while 75, and averaged 9. 7 mpg.

I know something must be wrong, and plan to take it in for some other warranty work but need some suggestions. Sometimes my turbo sounds strange. Is there a way for them to test it and see if it is not boosting properly? How can I convince them to check the injection timing? The last dealer I had look at fuel milaege said they don't mess with the timing. My clutch is not slipping, then temperature stays cool, although towing the heavy load stayed right on center - 190 I think it says. What is the temp. requirement for the computer system to go into closed loop, or does the diesel used different technowledgy? I have tightened all clamps, changed all filters and oil at the same time, but saw no change in milaege.

Any ideas?



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98. 5 24V QC 4x4 SB 3:54 5sp

 

[pcorssmit]

I don't know much about the 24 valves, but as for the turbo sounding different during a hard pull, are you sure it's the turbo you're hearing? The fans on these trucks are really loud when the motor heats up enough to lock up the thermal fan clutch.

Pete

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'97 2500 CC 4X4 5spd Sport
'83 K5 Blazer 350 TBI (ex 6. 2), 39. 5 TSLs, 3" lift, Dana 60/GM 14 blt, Detroits

 

[tlippy]

I'm getting 10. 3 pulling 7500#. Just put on 4000 miles on a trip from OR to MX and the mileage was consistant. Funny thing, I was talking with a guy who has the same truck as mine and he tows in O/D OUT. Runs 2500RPM @ 62MPH. I tried one tank of fuel with O/D OUT and the mileage still was 10. 3. Truck really humms at 2500. You gt used to it after 5 minutes

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99' Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 30K Miles.
26' Terry w/slide 7500GVWR
"KISS your truck and it will be forever faithful"

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I'm getting 10. 3 pulling 7500#. "

HMMmmm - I'm getting 16. 5 mpg pulling our 8000 lb fiver in mixed flat/Sierra grade driving, and around 21 mpg empty at normal freeway speeds with my older truck... Can there be THAT much difference between the old and new trucks?

No offense, but at that rate, I'll stick with my '91! #ad


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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... Tweaked pump, upgraded radiator... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

"Dura" WHAT? NOW I know where all those recycled beer cans go...

 

[Guest00]

MPG sound about right for a 24v. My 24 gets a lot less fuel mileage than my 97 PSD pulling same trailers and routs. Makes ya sick doesn't it.
If it's any consolation my mileage has remained the same befor and after bombing. It's just a little more fun now

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2K, 2500, Quad, SB, 4x4, 3:54LSD, A/T w/ DTT VB, TC, TC SAVER and AUX COOLER , REESE 15k 5th slider, EASLEY BULL BAR, MAAP NERFS, BFG-TA's, 9000's,TORQUS MAXIMUS 505 lbft ECM, stealth DD2's, Bully Dog Boost & elbow, ISSPRO pyro, boost & transmission, Turbo Lifesaver, JARDINE 4", PAC BRAKE, MAG HYTECH TP& DC, AFE filter, GEAR VENDORS OD, TAYLOR WING onboard.
pullees:
#1 y2k ARTIC FOX 5th
#2 22' car hauler w/ 76 Pinto 392cid or 68 Cyclone GT Cobra Jet FB
NRA-LIFE, VFW-LIFE, SoCSA-LIFE, SASS

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

your mileage sure sounds low to me. i just pulled 11k from spokane to helena over three big passes and i got 11mpg at 79mph. and pulling the trailer to spokane empty about 7k i got 11. 6mpg at 79 mph. now i'm not stock but i still think it's a little low. you might need to get some guages so you can monitor your boost.

a gooseneck sure does pull alot different. it will sure cut the corners won't it.

jim

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if it ain't broke fix it till it is!!
2001 eth, ez box, dd2's,southbendclutch

My Ram Pics

 

[Shelby Griggs]

IMHO the frontal area you are pushing and your speed are both killers of mileage. I am pushing some wind, custom bed and headache rack that is wider and taller than the cab. I notice that increased speed really drops the mileage. I am running about 8300 pounds and I get 16-17 stop and go and about 18 on trips, but I keep my speed down to 65 or below. If you want better mileage the easiest fix would probably be slowing down. I am probably one of the few on the board that drives for mileage rather than ET.

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2001. 5 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH (Built 09-10-00), DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Built 09-15-00, took delivery on 10-06-00, 7745 miles as of 03-02-01. Custom aluminum work body / flat bed. Coming soon: E-Brake and gauges.

 

[Rambling]

Tlippy & Rick,

Just got back from a 3k mile trip from RI to FL. Covered boht flat land, high rolling hills, and mountains (east coast size). Averaged about 11. 5 going south and 10. 5 going north pulling about 7K at 60mph.


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<font color=#990000>~<font color=#990000> '99 2500 SLT <font color=#990000> ~ QC ~ 4X4 ~ LB ~ Auto ~ 4:10 LSD ~
<font color=#000000>*<font color=#990000> BD E-brake<font color=#000000>*<font color=#990000> BD Autolock<font color=#00000>*<font color=#990000> Gear Vendor OD<font color=#000000>*<font color=#990000> Bullhide spray-in Line <font color=#000000>*
<font color=#000000>*<font color=#990000> 2k Komfort 5'er - 9,700 lbs <font color=#000000> *<font color=#990000> Jordan Research 2020 T-brake <font color=#000000>*<font color=#990000> Garmin III+ & Laptop software <font color=#000000>*
<font size=-2>... Keep on Rammin'! You'll love the way it feels!! #ad
... <font size=-1>

[This message has been edited by Rattlin (edited 04-30-2001). ]

 

[Ray Torresdal]

If I had to guess, I'd bet that frontal area and wind resistance play a much larger part in milage than weight. This might not be as much the case in stop and go driving, but on the interstate it certainly would be the case. Also, since the peak efficiency of the 24 valve is @2000 rpm, if you need to run 79 mph, look into a gear vendors overdrive. I see a big drop in mpg once I start trying to run much in excess of 70. (w/3. 54 rear)

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01 QC LWB 5 spd, trailer tow pkg, camper pkg
VA, PS boost module and elbow, PS heater saver

 

[JyRO]

Man I don't know for sure, but some of these fuel mileages sound waaaaaay questionable to me. 11k lbs, @ 79 mph and averaged WHAT? 11 mpg? Maybe CUMMINTSTRKN did get that kind of mileage, but I'm guessing he wasn't averaging 79 mph, although he probably got up to 79 a bunch of times. But to be able to average 79 mph with 11k lbs. , the only non-life threatening place you could even do that would be on wide open, straight, flat interstate. No offense CMSTKN. My truck EMPTY would probably only get 14 or 15 averaging 79 mph.

Rick, IMO your fuel mileage may be a tad low, but heck, you're running 70 mph. Plus, no telling what kind of traffic and terrain conditions you're experiencing. I don't think your mileage is too far off though. 70 mph may not sound very fast to some of you guys, but I had a Suburban before my Ram that would be screaming at 60 mph, get 9 mpg, and only pulling about 3,500 lb. It was fully mufflered and still my ears would be ringing when I stopped. So in my opinion 11 mpg at 70 mpg ain't that bad. I agree with SS, slowing down, especially pulling a 5er should have a pretty big impact on your fuel mileage.

- JyRO

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Y2K 2500 Cummins ETC/DEE, SLT+, 4X4, Quad, LB, Intense Blue Sport, 3. 54 LSD, rear aux. springs (camper special), sliding rear window, all options except cab clearance lights including agate leather, totally stock engine, silencer ring removed, "stealth," mod to run fogs with high beam. (20. 8 mpg @ 70 mph) Since everybody else listed their toys, I will too.

2000 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 4L V6 (25. 5 mpg @ 65 mph)
1990 Toyota Celica STX, FWD, 5-speed, 1. 6L I4 (36+ mpg @ 65 mph)
1983 Mazda RX-7 GSL Limited Edition RWD, 5-speed, 1. 1L Wankel (For sale)
No auto trannies in my home! Just say, "No!" to auto trannies.

 

[Guest00]

Frontal area has a lot to do with mileage.
Pulling my 5th in direct at 60 nets the same fuel milage as the same speed in GV od or od. The same holds true at 65,70 or 75. I get the same mileage at any of the speeds mentioned. I have put over 10k mi on the 5th since last Oct. and the fuel mileage comes up the same from 60 to 75.
The wing has helped but maintaining any speed over 55 requires 20 to 30# boost. 20# gets about 10 mpg and 30# nets about 7 mpg. with the wing up and bob tailing I will get about 14 mpg and with out the wing bobtailing I will get 18 mpg. With out the wing and the car hauler ( net 6k# +/- ) I get 12 mpg @ 75, same route w/ 5th and wing I get 11. 5, same route w/ 5th and no wing gets 8. 5. there is about a 5k# diff in weight and a whole lot more frontal area. The mpg figures have not changed With the addition of the DD1's or DD2's, just able to pull the grades at 75 and not dropping gears and speed. Maintaining speed ( 75 ) at lower rpms ( 2000 - 2400 [ 2400 GV od in direct] )does not generate as high egt's as down shifting to direct and trying to pull at 2800+ rpm.

These are my observations of my truck and may not hold true to others.

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2K, 2500, Quad, SB, 4x4, 3:54LSD, A/T w/ DTT VB, TC, TC SAVER and AUX COOLER , REESE 15k 5th slider, EASLEY BULL BAR, MAAP NERFS, BFG-TA's, 9000's,TORQUS MAXIMUS 505 lbft ECM, stealth DD2's, Bully Dog Boost & elbow, ISSPRO pyro, boost & transmission, Turbo Lifesaver, JARDINE 4", PAC BRAKE, MAG HYTECH TP& DC, AFE filter, GEAR VENDORS OD, TAYLOR WING onboard.
MxM's on order
pullees:
#1 y2k ARTIC FOX 5th
#2 22' car hauler w/ 76 Pinto 392cid or 68 Cyclone GT Cobra Jet FB
NRA-LIFE, VFW-LIFE, SoCSA-LIFE, SASS

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

jyro

i pulled this load on our way to and from bd's dyno days and i had 2 other tdr trucks following me. i set my cruise at 4mph over the posted sped limit which was 75 for about 260miles. the rest of the trip was at 74mph. now there was probably 20 miles in over 300 that i slowed a little. i at no time felt uncomfortable wih the speed. even with the three big passes between here and there i was able to pull 4mph over posted in high gear. i'm very impressed with my dd2's and ez. i did have to let out of it a couple of times due to egt's.

you guys need to realize the difference between a goosneck and a fifth wheel. there is no frontal area on a flatbed goosneck.
here was my load with the i beam hanging off the back all painted green.

#ad


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if it ain't broke fix it till it is!!
2001 eth, ez box, dd2's,southbendclutch

My Ram Pics

[This message has been edited by CUMINNTSTRKN (edited 05-01-2001). ]

[This message has been edited by CUMINNTSTRKN (edited 05-01-2001). ]

 

[illflem]

CUMMINSTRKN, like the looks of your trailer, but was wondering with trailer wheels so far back if you were having trouble overloading the rears on the truck? Don't know what you are hauling, but it seems like a third axle would be nice. My GN hauling 28k loaded evenly from front to back has the trailer wheels located a little rear of center, I try to drop the truck rear about 6" when loaded for the best ride. Seems that may little hard with your setup.

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'95 2500 4X4, AT, Driftwood, Banks Stinger, Warn fender flairs and running boards (work truck)
'95 3500, 5 speed, 3:54, BD E-brake, Driftwood, Banks & Psycotty, 34,000 GCW apple and tractor hauler (works harder truck)

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

jyro
if you have an eth and you tow i would be carful with anything over dd1's or the ez. if you use both your clutch will not hold. for warranty i would recommend the ez or ddttm. becuase you can remove it so easy. if you don't mind changing your clutch and don't mind towing by egt get the dd2's and ez. i still have my stock airfilter and stock exhaust minus the muffler. i have to hold my truck at wot for 3 or 4 minutes on a 6% grade loaded before i hit 1300. and then all i do is let off the throttle and the floor it again and it takes several minutes to hit 1300 again. if you don't want any egt issues get the dd1's and ez, but you will be giving up about 40hp. i beleive all of dd injectors are extrude honed and matched. as were the 275's are just bosch injectors off the shelf.

iiflem
here is a pic of my truck loaded about as evenly as i can. there is about 300 bales @ 80lbs a peice. so between trailer and hay i have 30k behind me. i would say i have at least 5k on the pin and my truck sagged less than 4". my truck has the best set of overloads i've seen from the factory.
what do you haul that weighs 28k? i love to see heavy stuff behind the rams.
#ad



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if it ain't broke fix it till it is!!
2001 eth, ez box, dd2's,southbendclutch

My Ram Pics

[This message has been edited by CUMINNTSTRKN (edited 05-01-2001). ]

 

[illflem]

CUMINNTSTRKN, you're right even with that hay load the truck doesn't look to be sagging. I haul 24 bins of apples @ 1200 pounds each. If I get in a pinch and might have to run a short load I've been known to put on four more = 34k on the three axle trailer. 3500 pulls it fine, but with the extra 5k the brakes are marginal, even with the E-brake. Balancing the load is the biggest challenge, just a few inches one way or the other makes the difference between a nice ride and misery. Your pictures look like the Columbia Basin or So. ID, whereabouts you living?

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

i'm in helena montana. that trailer is rated at 24k and is a tandem dually. the problem with 3 axle trailers is they are only single tire axles. and i think they are only rated at 21k so your not really gaining anything expect axle bind while turning. what is your trailer rated at? how often do you run your 28k load? i only haul hay a couple of times a year. you might be a good canidate for a f650 with the cummins option.

jim

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if it ain't broke fix it till it is!!
2001 eth, ez box, dd2's,southbendclutch

My Ram Pics

 

[illflem]

Jim, 5-6 loads, 6-7 days a week for 4 months. Round trip is 37 miles, return trip with 4400 lbs. of empty bins. Trailer is rated at 38k. It helps to have a good driver and a known route. The truck is parked for most of the rest of the year except to move tractors or supplies. Used to have a KW with 40ft flatbed and IH with 24' fixed bed. The GN and Dodge is faster and able to get into more places, saves on moving fruit to big loading areas far apart. That is it used to be, I have since torn out the the money sink orchard and am looking for fun or retirement elsewhere. - Bill

 

[rickhans]

Thanks for all the replys. It looks like I need a set of injectors or an ez but I still have a lot of warranty left. Only have 41k miles on it. When hauling a load I do have a lot of frontal area that I had not thought about. My heavy load is a '96 48'(working height) Condor man lift 4x4 with articulating boom, weighing 13,400 lbs. I am sure it creates a lot of drag. My lighter load is a Daewoo skid steer loader.

I have only been hauling it around for a couple of weeks but my truck bucks a lot with it but does not with the Condor. I have tried varying the location on the trailer but maybe have too much tongue weight. Next time I will try it directly over the axles.

The one other problem I ran into which never was much of a problem with a bumper pull is tight turns slides two of the wheels and tries to push the tire off of the rim. I have already torn up one innertube probably due to this. I have single wheels with load range G which only come in tube type. I may not keep this trailer long and get a dually instead.



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98. 5 24V QC 4x4 SB 3:54 5sp

 

[JyRO]

CUMMINSTRKN - OK, I see your point. You most definetly have a frontal area advantage with that gooseneck. Also, since your truck is a 2500 you'll have less rolling resistance. In your configuration I'll have to say that, OK I think its possible. If you say you got 11 mpg running 79 with 11k lbs. , then I believe you. Let me also add, THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. Plus, I've got almost the same truck as you, except mine is still stock at this time. I just can't make up my mind what I want to do to it. You could help me here. I'm only wanting some mild bombs, nothing nuclear. Like RV 275's and the DD-TTPM. I heard the DD1 injectors are actually a matching set of Bosch injectors, is that true? If so, I druther have the DD1's.

- JyRO

 

[illflem]

Rick, I discovered early on not to turn sharp (mainly U- turning) on pavement or with a load. Never lost a tire but have seen nasty skid marks. Same applies to a two axle dually trailer. What makes a GN great, but also can be a problem is how sharp they can turn. You can almost reach out the window and touch the trailer. I got myself into a jackknifed situation once where I had to pick up the end of the trailer with a forklift and straighten it out, I wasn't going anywhere.

[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 05-02-2001). ]