Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting First Cast loads 45/70

[BIGNASTY]

It's been cold here so I started casting for my I baby howitzer. :-laf I love this gun and round. The gun is the guide gun Marlin. in 45/70 for those that havent followed this post. I started with Starline brass/53gr H4895/Fed 215m primers/420 gr cast bullet. (more on bullet)



The load is more than accurate enough for my use. I dont have a chrono so I dont know how fast but it's kickin some serious butt on my plate targets.





The other is same brass 48 gr Alliant R7/Fed 210 primer/same bullet/ it also kicks butt on target. Even though is has less powder it seems to kick like one of my mules. Its kicking harder than previous load. Both show no signs of pressure problems and could go hotter I think but ill wait to see about THAT!



The bullet is a Hoch 420gr flat nose gas ck 459 diameter. Took awhile to figure out how to get good slug's from it as I havent had much experience casting. But they seem to work fine. I use wheel weights. And have found a supply of Linotype from an old print shop in town. I remember my Dad going nuts over the stuff when I was a kid and he and I cast bullets. Also talked to some telephone line repair guy's at the hwy and they are replacing lines made of lead with new stuff They gave me 2 sections from pole to pole it's allot of lead !!!



My question is this I have been using clip on wheel weights to cast. With my new found bounty of linotype/pure lead is there some kind of chart as to how to mix to get the right kind of mix for bullets.



These are some of the tools of the hobby that I have picked up. And yes IM TAKING PRECAUSIONS WITH THE LEAD . The pic at the bottom is the reason for all of this they are a beautiful beast but they could make for a VERY BAD DAY! Any advice would be welcomed thanks



BIGNASTY

 

[GHarman]

Wow!

BIGNASTY, sounds like you got it all.

Heres one chart, I C/P from the LA Sillouette Club link(bottom of page);

See also this recipe article: Alloying Antimony With Roto Metals Super Hard



Formulas using magnum shot Computed @ 4% Antimony and 1½% arsenic

Formulas using stick-on WW computed as straight lead

Formulas using clip-on WW Computed @ 3% Antimony and . 5% tin



Clip-on wheel weights - 20 pounds

Monotype - 2 pounds Stick-on wheel weights 15 pounds

Linotype - 3 pounds Clip-on Wheel weights - 4 pounds Lino 5 pounds

Clip-on Wheel weights - 9 pounds lead - 3 pounds Lead Shot - 4 ounces Tin - 9. 6 ounces

Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Arsenic Lead

1. 4% 4% 94. 6% 2. 2% 5. 25% 91. 9% 3% 4%



. 25%

92. 75 %

Add 1% tin. Good Magnum alloy



Quench/oven HT to 18 - 30+ BHN



Clip-on wheel weights - 20 pounds

Linotype - 5 pounds Linotype - 2 pounds Tin - 6. 4 Ounces @ 2%

Clip-on Wheel weights - 5 pounds Clip-on Wheel weights - 5 pounds or 9. 6 Ounce @ 3%

Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Arsenic Lead

2. 25% 7. 5% 90. 25% 1. 5% 6. 3% 92. 2% 2 1/4% 4% 1/4% 93 1/2%

Approximate Hardball BHN Nearly Lyman # 2 BHN Oven heat treats to 30 - 34 BHN



Monotype - 3 pounds

Linotype - 4 pounds Clip-on Wheel weights - 4 pounds Clip-on Wheel Weights - 9 pounds

Clip-on Wheel weights - 6 pounds lead - 3 pounds 50/50 bar solder - 1 pound

Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead

1. 9% 6. 6% 91. 5% 3% 7. 2% 89. 8% 5% 3% 92%

Approximate Hardball BHN



Medium hard alloy. Magnum handgun & rifles to 2,000 fps

Close to Lyman # 2 Alloy



Clip-on Wheel weights - 10 pounds Clip-on Wheel weights - 9 pounds

Clip-on Wheel weights - 10 pounds Stick-on Wheel Weights - 4 pounds Linotype - 2 pounds

Stick-on Wheel Weights - 4 pounds Virgin bar tin - 4 ounces Virgin bar tin - 7 ounces

Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead Tin Antimony Lead

. 35% 2. 2% 97. 65% 2. 1% 2. 1% 95. 8% 4. 9% 4. 45% 90. 65%

Trace of Arsenic - About 7 BHN Trace of Arsenic - About 7-8 BHN Lyman # 2 Alloy duplicate



NOTE: Not all alloy recipes listed above were tested by the author.

It may be better viewed in its original link about 2/3's down from the top! GregH



Cast bullet alloys, characteristics of CB alloys, maintenance of CB alloys

 

[GHarman]

The initial difficulties casting was probably the breakin period for the mould. Steel blocks take longer than iron. However that Hoch mould is one of the best! Try smoking the mould cavity with a wooden match. Hold it close to the inside of the cavity half to cause it to coat the cavity with black soot! The cavity to be smoked will be held above the match with the 1/2 cavity facing down. Again, you can use commercial mould release. Matches are cheaper, have no chemical residue and work quite well! GregH

 

[GHarman]

BIG! Make sure you do this in a well ventilated area and keep your lead residue out of the house! GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Ya the better half has resined me to the Garage to do the castin. Kind of cool out there but a breeze comes thru and the fumes are out the back door when opened. Other than that the reloading goes on in the downstairs rec room she had a sign made for over the door. NASTY'S REC ROOM. I have always got a kick out of Burt on that movie where the big underground worms attack the town. (cant think of the name) But Burt and Reba kill the worm that breaks down the wall to BURT'S REC ROOM. :-laf

 

[HHhuntitall]

Greg, you forgot to go into the reasoning for the alloy percentages and why they are important!!! Basically, they help hold the lead together, and varying percentages give varying rates of expansion. I'm sure you could explain it better than I, so I'll wait for the details... ...



Oops, had time to read article and see they go into those details!! Very good short breakdown!! I'm gonna print that and keep it in my favorites!! As always, an excellent source in regards to molten metal!! Thanks Greg!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

I knew that when I posted this Greg is a shooting Magnet would first to chime in . But it's always good to get other points of interest also. That was a good read on bullet info.

 

[GHarman]

BIG, You and HHhuntitall should compare notes! Both of you have more experience than I do!

HH is up to his "eyeballs":-laf into it! He's just gettin wound up. I'm slopeing out!

BIG, "HH" is the "onliest" one I know that uses a bigger riflegun than you doOo.

GOOD People!

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

BIG, You and HHhuntitall should compare notes! Both of you have more experience than I do!

HH is up to his "eyeballs":-laf into it! He's just gettin wound up. I'm slopeing out!

BIG, "HH" is the "onliest" one I know that uses a bigger riflegun than you doOo.

GOOD People!

GregH

I've got a 450 Marlin and a SS 45/70 Guide gun, too. But I don't like to shoot it!!! :blackeye: I sure don't have anything larger in a 7lb lever rifle!!! I'd hate to see what a 7lb . 510 bore would do to someone!! The handloads in the Vulcan are rough enough. It's bad when a 34lb rifle rears up off the sandbags like an old '06 Featherweight!! I may have to back that load down for fun's sake! And slopin' out? Hey, us young 'uns got to catch up somehow!!! HA!! I'd give various body parts for your knowledge and experience!! Well, some of 'em anyway... ... Some of those I don't want to see..... Like bath time.



I've only got limited experience on the casting. I've got some good molds for the . 25, 30, and 35 Remington, 44 Mag/Special, . 45 ACP/Colt, . 44-40, . 38, and 9mm. My grandfather and I cast quite a few for the Remington pump rifles 20 years ago, as it was fun as a kid to get to shoot 'em. But I was responsible for gathering up the lead for bullets, and Pop always managed to find a little powder and primers. Made for a good winter's project at his house... . especially since it wasn't insulated!!! :warmhands: And he'd drag all the crap to my Dad's during deer season, as it kept me busy after dark. We never experimented with any alloy changes, we just cast with the old wheel weights, and they worked pretty well, I'd say. He'd use an old oil lamp for carbon coating the inside of the molds. Turn the wick up high and let it smoke, then run the molds through the smoke several times. Or use an old wax candle and burn oil out of the molds with it, which took longer, and since he didn't have but one ceiling light in his house, I usually needed the extra light from the lamp, anyway. Things were much more simple back then... ..... And that Remington Model 14 in . 25 Remington would really shoot!! I killed a lot of coyotes and coons with it, and even more rocks and bottles!! Wow. Makes me want to go dig it out of storage. My dad couldn't afford a nice centerfire rifle for me, so Pop let me shoot that old antique, and I LOVED it!!! The . 25 was one of the only things I requested when he passed away. I bet I've still go 200 rounds loaded for it. Those need to be shot!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

Most of my shooting is done with a bunch of ammo except the Marlin. My neighbor came over to see what the noise was all about. He is a photographer for several Mags. In one of our return trips from camp this season we ran across him. His horse had thrown a shoe we put on a temp and got him back to town. He asked what it was we were shooting I let touch one off he put the gun down I said there's more if you want to. He said no I only like to get punched from a woman :-laf It's not something that one would want to do extended sessions at the range with



Quote

us young 'uns got to catch up somehow!!! HA!! I'd give various body parts for your knowledge and experience!! Well, some of 'em anyway... ... Some of those I don't want to see..... Like bath time.





I mite take you up on the various body parts. If you have a spare right knee mine is pretty much shot

 

[HHhuntitall]

Most of my shooting is done with a bunch of ammo except the Marlin. My neighbor came over to see what the noise was all about. He is a photographer for several Mags. In one of our return trips from camp this season we ran across him. His horse had thrown a shoe we put on a temp and got him back to town. He asked what it was we were shooting I let touch one off he put the gun down I said there's more if you want to. He said no I only like to get punched from a woman :-laf It's not something that one would want to do extended sessions at the range with

Ha!! yeah, a buddy of mine let his girlfriend shoot his . 270. Her, not being accustomed to any recoil at all, thought it really kicked, and let out a line of expletives that Popeye would have been embarassed by. He thought this was funny, but I thought it was kinda mean. I broke out the Marlin and let a few fly into the lake, and then let him shoot it. I said it didn't kick at all, it's got a muzzle brake!! I handed it to him, but he didn't see me slip a fresh round into it from the green MTM box on the floorboard, and wink at his girlfriend and smile. SOOOOO, when he touched off my handload, it backed his head up into the window seal of his truck and kept pushing. He let out a string of expletives that would have just plain made Popeye mad, and handed me back my rifle. We got a good laugh out of it, and I told him turnabout's fair play!!

I mite take you up on the various body parts. If you have a spare right knee mine is pretty much shot

OH, well, I was thinking of some others... . they're barely used since I got married. Now, I've got two kids and I don't want any more... ... I can't afford their habits and mine!!! They're addicted to the white stuff!! Next time I lose a calf, I'm gonna keep the cow milking just to feed them!!!



Hey, you're shooting at a gong, right? What distance, size? What kind of accuracy are you getting you think?

 

[BIGNASTY]

I have some plate targets that are set up at 100 yards for the Marlin. And the others are 300 and 600 yards. I dont shot the Marlin at anything past the 100 yard as it was intended for close range defence. Actually 100 yards is further than what is intended. But at 100 Yards im hitting my target and its about a 6 in square. I haven't gone as far as putting up a BULLSEYE and measured bullet holes. I would have to do some walking and im trying to save as much knee as I can until Dec. when it's going to be replaced. Greg made a great suggestion that I practice carrying it in normal fashion and then getting it into shooting form fast to get used to it BEFORE it became necessary (makes sense to me), So im doing good with that ( I think the wife is thinking that mountain isolation) has finally got to me with the rifle quick draw thing. But I would rather look like a idiot now than look like an idiot while being eaten and fumbling around with a gun. It's not like you can call a time out or instant replay.





It has a recoil pad on it but I took it off and put some spacers in to increase the LOP so my long arm's can pull it into my shoulder as not to get the crap kicked out of me IT WORKED. And the accuracy got better. Good question ill have to have my nephew take some targets out next time he's over and we will see. The dam bullet holes are so big ya dont need a spotting scope. :-laf



You keep cow's for milk? The doctor's at the Hospital ask me to have some kind of special X ray taken for my upcoming knee job. They asked how long I had been on high dose Calcium medication. I have had a prescription for about 6 years but quit taking the things because we have a cow and drink raw milk. My doctor in So Calif was old school he made the suggestion of raw milk and I guess it works. He was one of the old school doc's from my birth state on Nebraska I trusted him !! some of these new hot shot's I think are all about get you in and get you out.

 

[GHarman]

More stuff!

Hey Gentlemen! Heres another link I posted elsewhere that should be included in this thread. Probably got lost in the translation. However, I think it is good information to pass on. My bullet casting experience started much as yours did, HH. A bullet caster can get right down to scientific perfection if desired!

I started casting bullets on the KITCHEN STOVE with my Mom picking up the sprues and throwing them back in the pot! You can tell we did not know what we were dealing with! Maybe thats why I got this nervous tic,eh eh, eh,eh They were round balls for a . 40 caliber Home Rifle(also known as a Kentucky, Pennsylvania or Southern Mountain Rifle). I burnt alot of Black Powder when I was a kid! It just "lead balled" from there into . 52 Sharps(paper cartridge), . 30, . 45/70, et al .

Anyway! Heres that link. It goes hand in hand with the previous link and is from the same source. GregH



Heat treating cast bullets and lead - antimony - arsenic alloys



I'll be shooting more cast bullets, and loading for 1885 BPCR . 45/70! I would like to get a HOCH mould. Just havent decided which one! I'll be shootin' "girlie" loads in it:-laf. Dont need much to punch holes in paper!

Have fun! GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Thanks Greg another great read

 

[JJPage]

Today I picked up a new Marlin 1895SBL 45/70. I am not into hand loading, so thought I would ask you folks what you thought would be a decent factory load.

I did purchase a box of Hornady leverevolution 325 grain shells, but since I have no personal knowledge of past experience with this caliber, thought I would ask you guys. TIA.



Jess

 

[GHarman]

Factory Loads

Depends on what you want! There are several very high intensity loads, like the Garrett, and there is the 405 Gr. Rem/Chester loads that are approximately the same velocity as the original Black Powder loads. Far easier on the shoulder. IMHO, you are really missing out on the versatility of this cartridge by not handloading.

Nosler makes a 300 Gr. Partition that would be adequate for any Deer, or black bear. The 325 Gr. Hornady leverevolution(sp?) ammo really makes the 45/70 into a flat shooting(comparably speaking) game getter. It all depends on how much recoil you can tolerate, your quarry and budget! GregH

 

[JJPage]

Most of the area's I hunt are fairly heavily timbered, so most shots are under 100 yds, however they could be out as far as 200 yds max.



I am used to my Ruger 44 mag carbine with 200 gr Speer loads, seems to shoot pretty flat out to about 150 yds. So would like a similar result, however instead of Whitetail and Muleys, now it will be Black Bear and Elk.



I am fond of the open sights, and my shots are close, so really do not need high intensity or super hot loads, really more concerned with consistency and accuracy.



Thanks for any input.

 

[GHarman]

Accuracy is a function of harmonic vibrations and the bullet leaving the barrel at the same point in space each shot. All else being equal, it is a process of finding the factory load that strikes that node like a tuning fork. This is a very simple answer to a very complicated question.

Your expected distances you will encounter game is right in line with the . 45/70. However the recoil is more substantial than the . 44 magnum.

I believe there are 300 Gr. factory loads available from Winchester and Federal.

Shot placement is still critical!

To determine the most accurate factory load, you need to purchase several different boxes of loads, from different manufacturers and shoot them at known distances. The best group wins, set your sights for that load and buy 10 boxes of the same lot number! The lot number is printed inside the flap on the end of the box of cartridges. Your then "Good to Go"! GregH

 

[JJPage]

Yes, I am expecting the recoil on the 45/70 to be quite different than the Ruger 44 semi-auto, since it's recoil is pretty much non-existent.



I guess I will heed your advice and try several different factory loads at 100 and 150 yds. Thanks for the hint on lot numbers, I didn't know that. I am kind of hoping that these Hornady's I bought at the pawn shop where I bought the gun are suitable, as they were $30 a box compared to $35+ for everything else they had. I will save all my brass, maybe will have to start handloading after all...

 

[GHarman]

Those Hornady loads would be the one to try first. Hopefully they will work satisfactory.

If you decide to buy ammo in the large quantity. I recommend an internet purchase. There are a bunch of dealers out there!

Heres one of the cheapest, regardless of a sale price. GregH



Hornady*45-70 Govt 325gr LevRev /20*82747