First gen injector questions

[MMiller]

Ok boys I'm in need of some schooling. Tell me what will work. I have my 1990 CTD offroad truck. It currently has stock injectors. I am slowly bombing this truck. Its mainly for off roading, 4 wheeling, blasting through the mud, crawling over rocks etc. Not intended for towing(unless its an emergency), or working, just for fun. I have a set of stock take out injectors from my 93, that I pulled because I got a little carried away with a buffing wheel doing a headgasket repair. I just followed the link to the EDM'd injectors, they need cores. I know the injector hole in the head is larger in the 90, then the 93, but I can get adapters for that. The 90 will also not always have the old head on it.



I want to upgrade the injectors on my 90. I know PODs will work, but I'd like a little more, and little more refined. Would my injectors from the 93 be good candidates for EDM? What kind of info will the EDM guy need before modding my injectors? How does all this work?



Bill? Scott? Anybody else that has messed with these. Lead me a little here, please. Just not too far astray. :-laf



Michael

 

[MotleyCrueCab]

My buddy got his stock injectors edm'd at a shop in freemont for around $100 at a chirstmas sale. we recently replaced them with a set of pods i had laying around. Results: PODs had more power (maybe 20 horse), worse milage, way more smoke at part throttle. The pods haze at idle and smoked a little bit more at wfo. Keep in mind his pump screws are turned all the way. And you can get wilder EDMs than he got, but they will cost you. just my 2 cents... .



Mike

 

[bgilbert]

I want to upgrade the injectors on my 90. I know PODs will work, but I'd like a little more, and little more refined. Would my injectors from the 93 be good candidates for EDM? What kind of info will the EDM guy need before modding my injectors? How does all this work?

Yes those 93 injectors are good cores. They will use new tips for EDM's, so it doesn't matter that you nicked them or whatever. Now if you wanted to go

the cheaper route of having them honed, then you're probly out of luck with a damaged tip. I wouldn't buy a set of EDM'd injectors if they used the old tips to EDM.



The main question is, how much money do you want to spend?



Would your non-intercooled engine ever reap all the rewards (potential) of POD's? Would a hotter set even be more noticeable or useable?



What's a matter, don't wanna offend the gassers waiting in line with some idle haze :-laf?



I understand, you want the most bang for your buck. You want more than +29hp for $350 bucks. Maybe if Greenleaf is gonna have his Silver Bullet down awhile, he could loan you his POD's to test out and see if you think they would be enough, then ship them back to him.

What kind of info will the EDM guy need before modding my injectors?

Credit card number, expiration date, last three digits on the back of the card:-laf:-laf.

 

[JLEONARD]

Credit card number, expiration date, last three digits on the back of the card

You forgot "ship to" address.

Use this one

600 New Harwinton Road Torrington, Ct 06790

 

[MMiller]

Yes those 93 injectors are good cores. They will use new tips for EDM's, so it doesn't matter that you nicked them or whatever. Now if you wanted to go

the cheaper route of having them honed, then you're probly out of luck with a damaged tip. I wouldn't buy a set of EDM'd injectors if they used the old tips to EDM.

10-4

The main question is, how much money do you want to spend?

Not a whole lot, but want more then 29 hp increase

Would your non-intercooled engine ever reap all the rewards (potential) of POD's? Would a hotter set even be more noticeable or useable?

I don't know, you tell me.

What's a matter, don't wanna offend the gassers waiting in line with some idle haze :-laf?

Ahh, I don't worry too much about gassers on the trail. I just don't want to be nuisance on the trail. I guess the truck does have stacks.

I understand, you want the most bang for your buck. You want more than +29hp for $350 bucks. Maybe if Greenleaf is gonna have his Silver Bullet down awhile, he could loan you his POD's to test out and see if you think they would be enough, then ship them back to him.

Credit card number, expiration date, last three digits on the back of the card:-laf:-laf.

Hmm, thats an idea, I should just buck up and buy a set of PODS just for fun. I just don't like doing things 2 and 3 times. Just want to do it once.



Michael

 

[MMiller]

Credit card number, expiration date, last three digits on the back of the card

You forgot "billing" address.

Use this one

600 New Harwinton Road Torrington, Ct 06790

There, fixed it for you. I'll just have them shipped here though. If you ever want to visit them, then just come on up to Iowa.



Michael

 

[dpuckett]

Ok, I'm lost. I guess I just had too good of luck with my 90 engine. I did just fine with stock injectors, and though never dynoed, I'd imagine around 270/700 WITHOUT an intercooler.



I was not super impressed with the EDMs I got. They added some power, and smoked less than the old (290K) stockers I took out, but didnt do as well from a smoke vs power standpoint as the stockers I borrowed from Bill. I do know you will max out the pyro with stock injectors, so unless you add an intercooler (not a bad idea), I see no reason to upgrade or go to hotter sticks.



I am thrilled with the honed injectors I got from DynoMite Diesel- added a bunch of power (sorry no gauges in before injectors, so cant tell how much boos tI gained), and little to no smoke. He put in new tips, old ones were shot. They are 4 hole, in a pattern similar to stock non-IC; maybe 190s?



Daniel

 

[MMiller]

Well Daniel, this is for the most part a strictly fun truck. I admit, I am running blind with no gauges right now . I don't drive it on the street right now, and don't pull any trailers. At the very most right now it sees 10 seconds of wide open throttle assaults, and then idle.



I'm trying to gather information on mods to do. I'm actually thinking about a liquid aftercooler with some sort of cooler in the back(like Partsmans), or even an aftercooler out front if I can find one. I know I should probably address air and cool air before fuel, but who does that any way? :-laf



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

Ok, I'm lost. I guess I just had too good of luck with my 90 engine. I did just fine with stock injectors, and though never dynoed, I'd imagine around 270/700 WITHOUT an intercooler.

C'mon now with the internet dyno horsepower:-laf. Dyno sheet? IIRC, I did 243hp 5xx something with POD's no intercooler, lil turbo.

I was not super impressed with the EDMs I got. They added some power, and smoked less than the old (290K) stockers I took out, but didnt do as well from a smoke vs power standpoint as the stockers I borrowed from Bill.

That's cause they were DonM injectors :-laf :-laf :cough::choke::cough:[yuk]

I am thrilled with the honed injectors I got from DynoMite Diesel- added a bunch of power (sorry no gauges in before injectors, so cant tell how much boos tI gained), and little to no smoke. He put in new tips, old ones were shot. They are 4 hole, in a pattern similar to stock non-IC; maybe 190s?

C'mon now, no before and after?? IIRC, 190's and 185's are 5 hole, well at least 185's are.



Ok enough picking on Daniel. He is on the money though about the nonIC'd injectors being ok. Michael, have you turned up the pump on the 90 much? You can get decent gains with those stock 9mm injectors. I don't really think you'd gain much by a hotter injector than POD's with your baby turbo and lack of condensed cool air. Someone's gotta have a set of POD's layin around for you to try out.

 

[MMiller]

I've turned up the pump, so its like my 93 settings wise. I bottomed the starwheel(I guess thats what you guys call it) under the fuel pin. I set the fuel pin to the richest setting(didn't have a grinder when it was open last time) and screwed the full fuel screw in two turns past the lock ring. I also backed the high idle screw back out of the way. That gave me some pretty good gains. My gasser buddies were amazed how much I woke the truck up, just by adjusting some screws. Its still not near what the 93 runs like( I know apples to oranges).



Mainly the 93 is probably at its limit for fuel, it needs some more air, but all in all, its where I want it power wise. The 90 is a toy, one I can really put the screws to, and I'm looking for information before I spend senseless $$$. Thanks for all the inputs guys, and keep them coming.



If diesel fuel wasn't so expensive, I'd haul the 90 out behind my 93 to SOP and have you guys tell me how it runs for a nonIC, 727 truck.



Michael

 

[JLEONARD]

My pump was "moderately" tweaked when I changed from the stock injectors to the Bully Dogs. I noticed a pretty good change just from the injectors. It changed the power curve for sure, more lower end grunt. No graphs to back that claim, but it was very noticable. Since then I've made some more fuel adjustments, including a little fuel pin altering, to the point where it's a little smokier that I care for when I lean on it. I know I can adjust some of that out... one of those "round tuit" jobs.

I also noticed a nice gain when I changed the intake crossover tube and modified the turbo. Gave it just a touch more lag, but really made it run free on the highway at 70 mph plus (which is where I spend most of my driving time).

So if you're looking to spend sensless $$$ make sure you hold a little in reserve for some air improvements as well.

Have fun.

 

[Greenleaf]

You guys just ain't right.

 

[JLEONARD]

You guys just ain't right

Present and past company included.

 

[Greenleaf]

I wouldn't have it any other way... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[dpuckett]

C'mon now with the internet dyno horsepower:-laf. Dyno sheet? IIRC, I did 243hp 5xx something with POD's no intercooler, lil turbo.

And you were so sure I'd top 300 at the StL dyno day. I thought more like 260-270. Torque was figured by multiplying the hp by 2. 5. It'd run neck and neck with a chipped PSD auto(not giving the CTD much credit). Remember, I had a 4" exhaust and a PDR HX35, with about 125-130mm/stroke (not much in the big HP races, but still a lot over stock)

C'mon now, no before and after?? IIRC, 190's and 185's are 5 hole, well at least 185's are.

Yes, and I have been told (maybe I read) the 190s are 4 hole. That is why I thought 190s. They could be something else totally different. I know the hole pattern is similar to the nonIC injectors, only 7mm.



Dont worry, guys, I am just jesting in response to Bill "picking" on me. BTW- what does IIRC stand for? I have a bit of a life outside my internetting



-DP

 

[CSchafer]

I am still very impressed with my stock non ic injectors. I was woried about them not making the new turbo spool but there is no problem at all, spools almost as good as the lil one. In third gear I can hit 37psi and in fourth and fith it slips the clutch after 30 psi . I think an intercooler or some sort of special charge air cooling device, more pump mods and a turbo are in line before injectors, At least in my limited experiences.

 

[bgilbert]

If I recall correctly.



Stock injectors are just that, STOCK!!!!

 

[JLEONARD]

Bill,

I thought you were computerless :-laf :-laf

And you DO recall correctly

some sort of special charge air cooling device

Hmmm... I smell a secret project



Jay