First Gen Killer Dowel Pin

[rdodd]

Does anyone have an approximate percentage or number of dowel pins falling out of 1st gen trucks? After talking to service people at Shied diesel in Indiana during there event this summer they said they have only seen one failure for dowel pin problem on 1st gen trucks and they have worked on many older trucks over the years. I have also talked to other diesel shops and they didn,t seem to be to concerned about the problem. If i don,t jig my dowel what are my odds of having a problem--- 1 in a 1000, 1 in a 100, 1 in 50, etc ?

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Even if it's 1 in a million do you want to be the 1? I've seen the front gear case off of a '90 and that one was lucky - only the gear case was destroyed. The other came out with the oil change - one very lucky 1st Gen.



Bob

 

[Smokin 90]

Just because a truck has a lot of miles on it does not mean that you are safe and that the pin is not going to fall out. I was at a local TDR event this fall and had my KDP put to rest, I am gald I did because it was starting to fall out and it did not have much farther to go before things would have turned ugly. In my opinion the pin should be killed as soon as possible on our engines.



Kurt.

 

[rdodd]

Would'nt removing the timing cover be the better way to fix the dowel pin rather than the jig method so that the bolts inside the cover could be checked also?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Especially on pre-1996 Rams, the bolts inside the gear case have no goo on them and they come out. With the first gen, I have seen more loose bolts than pins that had moved very far.

 

[Philip]

I pulled the cover on my truck three weeks ago. The KDP had moved only 1/8th inch. But I had one bolt on the camshaft retainer that I could have removed with no effort with a 1/4 drive setup. There was one bolt in the lower right hand corner of the cover loose the same amount.



Do your self a favor and pull the cover and check the bolts. Most likely they are loose.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I was thinking of doing the cover method with my 95, labour is outlined in other posts and looks realy straight forward, but what parts would I need?

 

[DieselBuzz]

It killed my motor

My pin dropped and smashed the gear for the oil pump. Going down the hi-way at 75 the rings on the 6th piston melted and did it smoke! I replaced the engine, going from 10k for the for the truck plus another 5k for a new motor with trimmings. The wife was less than pleased. So I'm sort of committed to being a first gen. for a while.

 

[tugboatphil]

If the dowel is starting to come out already, can it be removed? Does it need to be in there after the engine is bolted up?

 

[Coalsmoke]

That's something I was wondering, why not just remove it instead of doing the tab method.

 

[Tim1]

removing the pin

Can the pin be removed? Not really. Does it need to be there after the housing is all glued in to the gaskets and bolted,probably not. BUT, that pin is so hard that you won't be able to grab it to pull and although it didn't seem like much tapping to seat mine back, in reality it was pretty tight. It may have never moved more than the 1\8" it did, but ;peace of mind now. Fellas, if you are in there, just tab it and locktight the bolts, done. As for parts Gasket #3914385@15. 68 Seal#3804899@25. 63 from cummings and dowel pin #04429257 from dodge Be sure and take your cpl# and your old gasket with you as there were 2 for the 92years. The fan nut size if you need it is 1 7\16". This is a easy chore to do and I fell worth the effort. Tim

 

[Philip]

The dowel pin is used to keep the cover positioned properly. The bolt holes have top much clearance to do this. I would leave it installed.

but what parts would I need

You need a new cover gasket and front seal for your engine. The gasket is different for your 95 than our 1st gen's. I don't have the number for a 2nd gen. Case500D found this out. The place where he bought his gave him a 2nd gen gasket. I got a emergency phone call one day. He needed my gasket. I hadn't done my pin yet.

 

[quikshft]

OK you guys have scared me into doing something about this... . peace of mind is a good thing. Is there a link to some step by step or overall type instructions for the fix?

 

[Coalsmoke]

I think there's info "sticky'd" in the second gen forum, maube it would be of some help. Might at least give you a bit of an idea of what has to be done.

 

[quikshft]

I emailed and asked the guys from TST who have a kit available for 2nd generation trucks if it would also work on my '92. Mark from TST responded and said the same kit will work, but that he hadn't heard of a failure with the VE pump. I have to assume that the VE pump is specific to the 1st gen trucks based on this answer, true? Further, even though I know about the KDP, I don't know what it's purpose is. What does that pin do?

Regardless, as noted above if the odds are one in a million who wants to be the one? Not me and I will order the kit and tab my dowel pin.

 

[Philip]

There have been a few people on here with first gens that had them come close to falling out. We had two members in the last year lost camshafts and housings from bolts coming out. JDmaio was one and I can't remember the other member.



It isn't worth the chance to not pull the cover. The loose bolts are just as big of issue as far as I am concerned. IMHO

 

[sparks57]

I'm the lucky guy who had his dowel pin end up in the oil pan without damage.



The only reason no damage happened for me is because I think the KDP popped out when I got stuck with the front of my truck pointed downhill... it took a long time to get unstuck and I think it rattled loose when I was trying to get out. 2 weeks later I found the pin stuck to my magnetic drain plug when I changed the oil.



Just get rid of it so you don't have to worry.

 

[MAX A/C]

quickshift: Yes, the VE is found only on first gens. '94 went to the P7100 for emissions reasons. Wish we had it!!!



To answer your question, the KDP is used during assembly to align the front case on, and--notwithstanding Philip's answer--that's it not necessary afterwards. But if someone who's been there done that says leave it, that's fine too.



Based on this thread I need to do mine!

Scott

 

[michigandon]

Here is a KDP being tabbed on a 1st gen engine. '93 to be exact:

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