Attention: TDR Forum Junkies [RAW]
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This week I got the opportunity to drive the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and the new ProMaster. Here’s the bad news: At this time the EPA estimates for the diesel 1500 have not been determined and there were no ProMaster diesels here yet—the 3.0-liter four-cylinder remains a mystery for now.<br/><br/>Pricing on the 1500 EcoDiesel was described to me so many different ways—above a Hemi, above a V-6, on a base truck—that I can’t say precisely what it will cost you. The most detailed number was $2860 more than a Hemi…or $3970 over a base V-6 gasser, so the diesel roughly half the size of a Cummins costs roughly half as much. Marketing? Collusion? Injectors and turbos priced by power ratings?<br/><br/>You already know the 3-liter VM engine is the same as the one in the Grand Cherokee. Sort of. The truck guys say they did some recalibrations and adjustments for a more pickup-like torque curve. I haven’t seen the curves for either but the Ram diesel rated output is 240 hp @ 3600 rpm and 420 lb-ft of torque from 2000 rpm…exactly the same as the engine in the Grand Cherokee. The engine cover does indeed look different but at 100F ambient and 200F fluids it was too hot for me to be fumbling around trying to take it off.<br/><br/>Whether or not you find it as refined as Mercedes’ 72-degree V or VW/Porsche/Audi’s 60-degree engine is almost irrelevant because it comes across the most refined pickup truck diesel in the U.S., regardless of who built it. Only Laramie-grade samples were available but I don’t think any missing insulation in a Tradesman or SLT would alter that impression, perhaps better to say that it did not seem at all out of place in the $55,375 trucks we drove.<br/><br/>It’s one-touch and settles into an idle background to AC fan or stereo system. Ram figures the diesel to run 0-60 in 9 seconds, as opposed to 7.5 for the 3.6-liter gas V-6, and that delta feels spot-on. Although it’s an undersquare engine off-idle torque of these 3-liter diesels feels initially underwhelming because it takes a second or so for boost to spool up and because once it does you have Hemi torque at half the revs and racket. True, the 3.6 gas engine has more horses than the diesel, but I bet at least half of the time deficit is erased if you run 10-60 mph rather than dead stop.<br/><br/>By on-board trip computer we measured 22 on a drive that included mountain roads, equal amounts suburban daily driving and steady-speed two-lane flats, and a 2+ mile freeway climb of seven percent or greater. And of course these things didn’t have many miles on them. My best guess says it’ll have a 10-20% advantage over the 3.6 (with which I’ve done 26 highway in a 2WD Quad Cab SLT) up to maybe 40-50% better than a Hemi towing (top tow rating is 9200). Don’t know what a Laramie Crew 4WD diesel weighs either, but the EcoDiesel is the heaviest Grand Cherokee so it could be leaning towards three tons with a Ram Box.<br/><br/>Those ventilated front seats were certainly welcome with black leather baking in the sun. My problem was that, for about $10,000 less, there was a lower-rent steel-wheel 2500 Crew 4WD Cummins with two levers in the floor parked just a couple of trucks away.<br/>
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<br/>The ProMaster brought out my inner white-van-man mentality. This big, medium big and very big box will come in 14 configurations courtesy three wheelbases, two roof heights, cargo van chassis cab, chassis cab cutaway, three weight ratings and by virtue of an upfitter plant right next to ProMaster’s new Saltillo, Mexico production facility, a 159-inch wheelbase high-roof<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>window van with seats (probably for 12).<br/><br/>The 3-liter four-cylinder diesel is undersquare (96 x 104 mm) with a compression ratio of 17.5:1, in a cast-iron block with bedplate, cross-bolted mains and aluminum alloy cylinder head. The twin overhead camshafts are gear driven and use roller-finger followers and it holds 9.5 quarts of oil. Rated output is 174 hp at 3600 rpm and 295 lb-ft at 1400 rpm; it’s governed to 4200 rpm and comes with a six-speed automated manual transmission (it has a big single-disc clutch but does that all and shifting for you by electrohydraulic operation).<br/><br/>When I hopped into a 1500 with the Pentastar 3.6 it was livelier than I expected, especially since the empty box weighed 4628 pounds and the engine is detuned to 280 hp in this application. Essentially a beefed-up Caravan/Town & Country drivetrain, this one has tighter spacing amongst the gears and a much shorter final-drive of 3.86:1. After hearing my backpack sail off the driver area shelf all the way to the back door I realized I wasn’t going to come up short on power.<br/><br/>The drive route directed you to a former Volkswagen facility where you opened the gaping back doors and they forklifted a palette of 1200 pounds in for you (it would go through the side door too). This slowed it only slightly, but made the ride less jittery, and braking showed the 1,000-pound-rated tie-down rings were up to snuff; the 550-pound-rated sidewall rings weren’t used.<br/><br/>Torque steer was quite well controlled, just a mild tug on the wheel at full-throttle easily countered with one arm. And your arms are likely to be straight with the Darwinian driving position, best if you drive it like a motorhome and don’t use any more than the bottom third of the wheel. The man/machine interface is quite good and the wide-angle elements in both outside mirrors are power-adjustable independently.<br/><br/>Top payload in a cargo van is 4417 pounds, in a window van 4384 and cutaways and chassis cabs are all 3500 units with “payloads” north of 5000 pounds. GCWR is 11,500 with the gas engine, 12,500 with the diesel, so a loaded 3500 can still tow more than 3000 pounds.<br/><br/>Pricing is yet to be announced but as the only front-drive full-size van it has niche, and if you’ve ever watched Roman delivery drivers you know the thing is robust and easily repaired.</p>[/RAW]
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#adThis week I got the opportunity to drive the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and the new ProMaster. Here’s the bad news: At this time the EPA estimates for the diesel 1500 have not been determined and there were no ProMaster diesels here yet—the 3.0-liter four-cylinder remains a mystery for now.<br/><br/>Pricing on the 1500 EcoDiesel was described to me so many different ways—above a Hemi, above a V-6, on a base truck—that I can’t say precisely what it will cost you. The most detailed number was $2860 more than a Hemi…or $3970 over a base V-6 gasser, so the diesel roughly half the size of a Cummins costs roughly half as much. Marketing? Collusion? Injectors and turbos priced by power ratings?<br/><br/>You already know the 3-liter VM engine is the same as the one in the Grand Cherokee. Sort of. The truck guys say they did some recalibrations and adjustments for a more pickup-like torque curve. I haven’t seen the curves for either but the Ram diesel rated output is 240 hp @ 3600 rpm and 420 lb-ft of torque from 2000 rpm…exactly the same as the engine in the Grand Cherokee. The engine cover does indeed look different but at 100F ambient and 200F fluids it was too hot for me to be fumbling around trying to take it off.<br/><br/>Whether or not you find it as refined as Mercedes’ 72-degree V or VW/Porsche/Audi’s 60-degree engine is almost irrelevant because it comes across the most refined pickup truck diesel in the U.S., regardless of who built it. Only Laramie-grade samples were available but I don’t think any missing insulation in a Tradesman or SLT would alter that impression, perhaps better to say that it did not seem at all out of place in the $55,375 trucks we drove.<br/><br/>It’s one-touch and settles into an idle background to AC fan or stereo system. Ram figures the diesel to run 0-60 in 9 seconds, as opposed to 7.5 for the 3.6-liter gas V-6, and that delta feels spot-on. Although it’s an undersquare engine off-idle torque of these 3-liter diesels feels initially underwhelming because it takes a second or so for boost to spool up and because once it does you have Hemi torque at half the revs and racket. True, the 3.6 gas engine has more horses than the diesel, but I bet at least half of the time deficit is erased if you run 10-60 mph rather than dead stop.<br/><br/>By on-board trip computer we measured 22 on a drive that included mountain roads, equal amounts suburban daily driving and steady-speed two-lane flats, and a 2+ mile freeway climb of seven percent or greater. And of course these things didn’t have many miles on them. My best guess says it’ll have a 10-20% advantage over the 3.6 (with which I’ve done 26 highway in a 2WD Quad Cab SLT) up to maybe 40-50% better than a Hemi towing (top tow rating is 9200). Don’t know what a Laramie Crew 4WD diesel weighs either, but the EcoDiesel is the heaviest Grand Cherokee so it could be leaning towards three tons with a Ram Box.<br/><br/>Those ventilated front seats were certainly welcome with black leather baking in the sun. My problem was that, for about $10,000 less, there was a lower-rent steel-wheel 2500 Crew 4WD Cummins with two levers in the floor parked just a couple of trucks away.<br/>
#ad<br/>The ProMaster brought out my inner white-van-man mentality. This big, medium big and very big box will come in 14 configurations courtesy three wheelbases, two roof heights, cargo van chassis cab, chassis cab cutaway, three weight ratings and by virtue of an upfitter plant right next to ProMaster’s new Saltillo, Mexico production facility, a 159-inch wheelbase high-roof<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>window van with seats (probably for 12).<br/><br/>The 3-liter four-cylinder diesel is undersquare (96 x 104 mm) with a compression ratio of 17.5:1, in a cast-iron block with bedplate, cross-bolted mains and aluminum alloy cylinder head. The twin overhead camshafts are gear driven and use roller-finger followers and it holds 9.5 quarts of oil. Rated output is 174 hp at 3600 rpm and 295 lb-ft at 1400 rpm; it’s governed to 4200 rpm and comes with a six-speed automated manual transmission (it has a big single-disc clutch but does that all and shifting for you by electrohydraulic operation).<br/><br/>When I hopped into a 1500 with the Pentastar 3.6 it was livelier than I expected, especially since the empty box weighed 4628 pounds and the engine is detuned to 280 hp in this application. Essentially a beefed-up Caravan/Town & Country drivetrain, this one has tighter spacing amongst the gears and a much shorter final-drive of 3.86:1. After hearing my backpack sail off the driver area shelf all the way to the back door I realized I wasn’t going to come up short on power.<br/><br/>The drive route directed you to a former Volkswagen facility where you opened the gaping back doors and they forklifted a palette of 1200 pounds in for you (it would go through the side door too). This slowed it only slightly, but made the ride less jittery, and braking showed the 1,000-pound-rated tie-down rings were up to snuff; the 550-pound-rated sidewall rings weren’t used.<br/><br/>Torque steer was quite well controlled, just a mild tug on the wheel at full-throttle easily countered with one arm. And your arms are likely to be straight with the Darwinian driving position, best if you drive it like a motorhome and don’t use any more than the bottom third of the wheel. The man/machine interface is quite good and the wide-angle elements in both outside mirrors are power-adjustable independently.<br/><br/>Top payload in a cargo van is 4417 pounds, in a window van 4384 and cutaways and chassis cabs are all 3500 units with “payloads” north of 5000 pounds. GCWR is 11,500 with the gas engine, 12,500 with the diesel, so a loaded 3500 can still tow more than 3000 pounds.<br/><br/>Pricing is yet to be announced but as the only front-drive full-size van it has niche, and if you’ve ever watched Roman delivery drivers you know the thing is robust and easily repaired.</p>[/RAW]
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