First the germans, now Japan

[DKarvwnaris]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051123/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_toyota_gm



Somehow, I feel less sympathy for GM than I did for Chrysler. GM has had plenty of time to see this competition coming. I bet Toyota will be putting in for a Merger with GM within the next 2 years on top of it. WAY TO GO DETROIT!!!!!!!!

Maybe Toyota will find a place for GM's exec's, I hear their news plant will need assembly line workers. :-laf



Seems funny that our worst enemies less than a century ago are now both in the top 5 five for dominating the US auto market. How sad we've let another US corporation be outdone by a foreign competitor.

 

[PKitzman]

It'll take them a couple years to get out of the gas guzzler SUV mode and start putting out some fuel efficient vehicles that consumers want. If GM's leaders had read the writting on the wall a couple years ago they would be in the drivers seat right now. They have a rough road ahead of them... hope they make it.

 

[R-N-R]

Great leaders do not necessarily lead people to where they want to go, but rather where they ought to go. Great leadership seems to be a characteristic from past generations. The US auto industry built what people wanted, not what the nation and their industry needed.

 

[FATCAT]

Great leaders do not necessarily lead people to where they want to go, but rather where they ought to go. Great leadership seems to be a characteristic from past generations. The US auto industry built what people wanted, not what the nation and their industry needed.

What we need is MORE OIL ... . AND ... a "Manhattan Project" for a new fuel that will be cheaper and way more powerful than oil (funded by a portion of the EXISTING fuel tax ... not a new tax!).

No country "conserved" their way to prosperity or greatness.

 

[KCJackson]

The US auto industry built what people wanted, not what the nation and their industry needed.

Disagree. Americans didn't want cars and highways per se... they were very carefully marketed to us, and as we do time and time again, we fell for the hype. Fifty years ago, we were told the interstate highway system was a necessity for commerce and defense... and oh, by the way, you'll be able to drive all over the place at higher speeds, in big roomy smooth-riding cars - don't worry about gasoline, there's plenty and it's only a few cents per gallon! The non-oil producing countries pushed public transportation and told people that cars were a luxury. Now in 2005, we have crumbling 14-lane superhighways packed to the limits with traffic, and all the other industrial countries seem to be doing just fine with buses and trains even though their price for gas is more than double what we pay.



We will ALWAYS fall for great marketing instead of truly great ideas. I was reminded of this Tuesday evening at the supermarket where, instead of people quietly going through the aisles with paper shopping lists getting their things for Thanksgiving, almost half the store was on a cell phone loudly telling someone at the other end of the call what was on the shelves (and worse were the Nextel customers, where you could hear the other person just as loudly).



And obviously, the US auto industry didn't build what we wanted OR needed... they built what they marketed to us because it made them the most money - cheap/easy-to-produce pickups and SUVs loaded with leather, chrome, and power everything. Bumped into some old neighbors 2 months ago... they were a 2-SUV family - kept the Jeep Liberty, but traded the Explorer because the fuel cost was killing them... traded it for a Honda Accord. And what did the big 3 respond with? Hemi Charger, V8 Impala, and the hybrid Ford Escape. Ford and GM are losing billions and have fire sales every three months to move product that apparently we don't want - while Honda and Toyota are reaching record sales numbers. The technology and engineering are there for a roomy family sedan with decent performance and great fuel economy, and the next generation of diesels are available to create capable light trucks that can get 30mpg highway... but "we" don't want that... we want the next great commercial.



Hey, where'd this soapbox come from?

 

[jwilliams3]

Now in 2005, we have crumbling 14-lane superhighways packed to the limits with traffic, and all the other industrial countries seem to be doing just fine with buses and trains even though their price for gas is more than double what we pay.

You take the bus and I'll drive my truck.

 

[R-N-R]

No argument here, whatever "motivated" the general public, Americans wound up wanting them. It is a shame that the US economical autos have been the cheapie models. The industry should have put more effort into higher quality economy centric vehicals. Autos are not the only example of American indulgance...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The non-oil producing countries pushed public transportation and told people that cars were a luxury.



Far more than that, it's about personal FREEDOM - freedom of personal CHOICE of living styles, not one DICTATED by the overseeers of respective societies.



It's further enhanced by geographic features and landmass that in turn determines transportation means and needs and the development of infrastructure.



I suppose IF an individual chooses to settle in a European country, where a place with a few acres out in the country has been SHAPED to be too costly and unavailabe to middle class folks, and a person WANTS to be herded into tighter, more easily controlled "living" quarters, that and the resulting mass transit is the way to go...



NOT for ME!



NOR, apparently, the many who still seem to choose the freedoms of THIS country, over those "superior" planned, governed, taxed, and carefully laid out ones overseas...



NOT for ME!



NOW, it seems, a few in positions of power are TRYING to do artificially by way of energy cost and availability what they haven't done otherwise - control our means of easy access to economical travel and mobility - make US more like those overseas...



NOT for ME!



IT'S bad enough that some envious and freedom-limited societies dislike us due the the freedoms we have cultivated and enjoyed - ones that MADE us a cornerstone in food, manufacturing and technology production - it WORSE when some in our OWN country start trying to generate the same guilt trips and self incrimination within our own nation.



I, for one, am PROUD of what this country was founded upon and became - and am only ASHAMED of what socialists and liberals have since made us become...

 

[JArbini]

since gm has been asleep at the wheel for quite a while now giving us one stupid looking, ugly, poorly built piece of crap after another they deserve whatever they have coming but it doesn't make it any less of a disgrace or any less embarrassing. toyota should take the gm execs on a "bataan death march". i was raised a chevy boy, now i wouldn't take their junk if you gave it to me. i'll take a lexus over a cadillac anyday.

and as far as crumbling highways, if the morally bankrupt politicians used the toll revenues for highway maintenance as it was intended instead of looking at it as another bag of cash they couldn't resist spending we'd have decent highways.

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan's Vision of Leadership of the US Auto Industry in 10 Years (2015):



1. Toyota

2. GM

3. Ford

4. Honda

5. Chrysler or DC

6. Nissan

7. Hyundai



Someone bring this thread back to life in 2015.



I agree with Gary and KCJackson. Our freedom to choose big gas-guzzling autos instead of public transportation is one I hold dear. But I do think that Americans are suckers for marketing (hence Ford and GMs ability to sell so many vehicles... ).



-Ryan

 

[KCJackson]

Ryan's Vision of Leadership of the US Auto Industry in 10 Years (2015):



1. Toyota

2. GM

3. Ford

4. Honda

5. Chrysler or DC

6. Nissan

7. Hyundai

I'd switch Honda's and Ford's positions. I don't see Mercury surviving as upscale Ford twins, and Lincoln is slow to respond to Cadillac's lineup aimed at those younger than the traditional 60-something audience.



And, I'd say that GM will be a more distant second than one might think. Pontiac and Saturn will be gone by 2010, and I wouldn't be shocked to see the GMC name folded in favor of all trucks being Chevy.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Ryan's Vision of Leadership of the US Auto Industry in 10 Years (2015):



1. Toyota

2. GM

3. Ford

4. Honda

5. Chrysler or DC

6. Nissan

7. Hyundai



Someone bring this thread back to life in 2015. (hence Ford and GMs ability to sell so many vehicles... ).



-Ryan

Regardless of what has caused GM and Ford's previous high sales, it isn't going to cut it any more. Confidence in Toyota and Honda is gaining far more than GM and Ford will ever get back with their arrogance of recent years. Loyalty to domestic products is gone. Everytime a company in America starts to get big enough to be a success story, they seem to either suddenly move to Mexico or be disposed of by a CEO for quick profit records.

I have no faith in anyone holding the long term market of the first three places but Honda, Toyota, and some division of Mercedes that was probably once called GM or some other Domestic failure.

 

[rbattelle]

I'd switch Honda's and Ford's positions.

You know, that was the hardest decision to make on my list: to put Honda as 3rd or 4th. What tipped the scales for me was Ford's truck sales. Honda doesn't make any trucks (Ridgeline doesn't count), and unless they start making some real trucks (at least a 1/2 ton) I have trouble seeing them unseating Ford for the #3 spot in the US.



If Honda comes out with a real 1/2 ton truck to compete directly with the F-150, Ford's doomed.



-Ryan

 

[DKarvwnaris]

You know, that was the hardest decision to make on my list: to put Honda as 3rd or 4th. What tipped the scales for me was Ford's truck sales. Honda doesn't make any trucks (Ridgeline doesn't count), and unless they start making some real trucks (at least a 1/2 ton) I have trouble seeing them unseating Ford for the #3 spot in the US.



If Honda comes out with a real 1/2 ton truck to compete directly with the F-150, Ford's doomed.



-Ryan

At the way Toyota is going with their full size truck developement, I can see them being the top sellers soon for that part of the market. Honda does need to target this as well, but I am betting their ridgeline will satisfy most of the soccer hags and weekend "manly" men with bicycles and a heavy load of IKEA to bring home.

Contractors and business folks are about the only ones who will still be stuck with the poor gas mileage of the full size trucks, which most all of the businesses I know are turning to the diesel trucks now, which as of yet is still a gasser sled.

 

[ChrisOlson]

AMEN BROTHER GARY

The non-oil producing countries pushed public transportation and told people that cars were a luxury.



Far more than that, it's about personal FREEDOM - freedom of personal CHOICE of living styles, not one DICTATED by the overseeers of respective societies.



It's further enhanced by geographic features and landmass that in turn determines transportation means and needs and the development of infrastructure.



I suppose IF an individual chooses to settle in a European country, where a place with a few acres out in the country has been SHAPED to be too costly and unavailabe to middle class folks, and a person WANTS to be herded into tighter, more easily controlled "living" quarters, that and the resulting mass transit is the way to go...



NOT for ME!



NOR, apparently, the many who still seem to choose the freedoms of THIS country, over those "superior" planned, governed, taxed, and carefully laid out ones overseas...



NOT for ME!



NOW, it seems, a few in positions of power are TRYING to do artificially by way of energy cost and availability what they haven't done otherwise - control our means of easy access to economical travel and mobility - make US more like those overseas...



NOT for ME!



IT'S bad enough that some envious and freedom-limited societies dislike us due the the freedoms we have cultivated and enjoyed - ones that MADE us a cornerstone in food, manufacturing and technology production - it WORSE when some in our OWN country start trying to generate the same guilt trips and self incrimination within our own nation.



I, for one, am PROUD of what this country was founded upon and became - and am only ASHAMED of what socialists and liberals have since made us become...

once Again

AMEN brother Gary

I for one am tired of others trying to make me feel guilty for being an AMERICAN



chris

 

[rbattelle]

but I am betting their ridgeline will satisfy most of the soccer hags and weekend "manly" men with bicycles and a heavy load of IKEA to bring home.

In theory that's true, but Ridgeline sales are not so hot. In fact, Honda just announced they're cutting production on the Ridgeline. That's not to say it's doomed.



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Last week's Automotive News had an interview with Honda CEO Takeo Fukui. One of the questions they asked is somewhat relevant to this thread:

Q: With the Ridgeline you entered a new segment. Are you looking at other truck segments? There's a big part of the American market that you don't participate in.

A: No. Right now we want to expand and strengthen our lineup in the Fit category.

[Note: the Honda Fit is a new Subcompact (smaller than Civic) to be introduced next year. ]



-Ryan

 

[FATCAT]

It'll take them a couple years to get out of the gas guzzler SUV mode and start putting out some fuel efficient vehicles that consumers want. If GM's leaders had read the writting on the wall a couple years ago they would be in the drivers seat right now. They have a rough road ahead of them... hope they make it.

Yeah, just in time for when gas prices dip below $. 89/gal. Then everyone will want the super-mega-SUV's again. :-laf

 

[DKarvwnaris]

In theory that's true, but Ridgeline sales are not so hot. In fact, Honda just announced they're cutting production on the Ridgeline. That's not to say it's doomed.



-Ryan

Once the short sighted paranoia of most suburbanites dissipates, they'll start sucking up the SUV market again. Maybe they'll be a little less foolish and settle for a middle of the road vehicle then. I've seen alot of thedomestic SUV's and full size trucks sitting on the used lots of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and VW dealers around here. Some haven't moved in months. I can only imagine the hits people must have taken to walk away from a $50,000 Suburban in favor of a $25,000. 00 > compact type vehicle. Honda is smart, they know where the short term sales are at. Once next year rolls around, you'll see the ridegeline gain popularity I bet. Or something close to it that replaces it.

 

[TowPro]

I drive my truck 30 miles to the train station, then ride the train for an hour each way.

You take the bus and I'll drive my truck.