Ford 445 loader tractor issues

[NIsaacs]

I am working on the above rig with a 3 cylinder diesel. They let it sit about a year with water in the oil. The pistons are seized due to rust. Any ideas on how to free them without any more damage or even with damage? As long as I can save the cylinder bore I will be satisfied. I have been soaking them in PB-Blaster for two days. I have a jack on the crank throw, pushing up and a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt and no go. I have even whacked on the pistons with a 2x4 and big dead blow hammer, still stuck.



Nick

 

[Nyoest]

Does the engine have a liner? I have pushed liner and piston out and taken to a press before.

I have also used an oak 4x4 with a big sledge to move em as well. The impact seemed to work better than slow steady pressure.

 

[NIsaacs]

No liners, wet or dry. I might try the 4x4 next. Also maybe I need to un-bolt all the rods and only try to break free one at a time. Due to clearance issues with the loader I don't want to pull the block if I can help it. Thanks



Nick

 

[mwilson]

I am working on the above rig with a 3 cylinder diesel. They let it sit about a year with water in the oil. The pistons are seized due to rust. Any ideas on how to free them without any more damage or even with damage? As long as I can save the cylinder bore I will be satisfied. I have been soaking them in PB-Blaster for two days. I have a jack on the crank throw, pushing up and a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt and no go. I have even whacked on the pistons with a 2x4 and big dead blow hammer, still stuck.



Nick

And I thought spending Saturday drilling broken manifold bolts out on my Dad's 4. 7L Durango (LH side with ABS pump and steering shaft in the way, of course) sucked... ... ... .....



There is always something worse going on somewhere in the world.





Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

Mike, I didn't learn with the shed, the same couple own the tractor:-laf



Nick

 

[mwilson]

Mike, I didn't learn with the shed, the same couple own the tractor:-laf



Nick

HA, I have found someone as gullible as myself.



Not related to you are they???



My relatives all use me harder than the general public... ... ...





Mike.

 

[mwilson]

No liners, wet or dry. I might try the 4x4 next. Also maybe I need to un-bolt all the rods and only try to break free one at a time. Due to clearance issues with the loader I don't want to pull the block if I can help it. Thanks



Nick

Being an armchair quarterback to this event, I think one at a time might work better.



Mike.

 

[Bill Stockard]

No liners, wet or dry. I might try the 4x4 next. Also maybe I need to un-bolt all the rods and only try to break free one at a time. Due to clearance issues with the loader I don't want to pull the block if I can help it. Thanks



Nick

Yep, take the rods loose from the crankshaft and whack the piston with a 10-lb hammer with a wood block on top of the piston. If it doesn't move, soak longer in penertating solution (kerosene works very well) and try again. Be sure to protect the crankshaft journals. Good luck!



Bill

 

[rscurtis]

A friend of mine has a 1951 Schramm air compressor. It got hit by a car once, damaging the muffler. It got water into one cylinder. In order to remove the piston, I drilled 4 holes around the circumference, being careful not to hit the cylinder walls. Once the piston was collapsed slightly, it would move. I tried every other trick, using a hydraulic jack, cooling it with refrigerant, etc, it wouldn't move. Once it was removed, I discovered all the different penetrants, etc. , hadn't made it past the top ring.



Before you get too deep into that Ford, you may want to check the price and availability of new pistons. That was a great engine in its day, but it's long since obsolete. Same thing with the Schramm. A Ford truck dealer who stocks old parts may also be a help, as that tractor engine is half of their 6. 6 litre truck engine.

 

[mwilson]

Before you get too deep into that Ford, you may want to check the price and availability of new pistons. That was a great engine in its day, but it's long since obsolete. Same thing with the Schramm. A Ford truck dealer who stocks old parts may also be a help, as that tractor engine is half of their 6. 6 litre truck engine.

If that is 1/2 of the Brazilian 6. 6L it looks like these guys would have pistons if needed. They are in Warren, Michgan.



7. 8/6. 6 Ford Brazilian



Mike.

 

[BSeyler]

Yep, take the rods loose from the crankshaft and whack the piston with a 10-lb hammer with a wood block on top of the piston. If it doesn't move, soak longer in penertating solution (kerosene works very well) and try again. Be sure to protect the crankshaft journals. Good luck!



Bill

Did this very thing on an old Wisconsin engine that had been sitting outside on a baler for quite a long time. The muffler was gone and the engine had taken on some water. It took some time and work, but when the pistons finally came loose and were removed, I just honed the cylinders, replaced pistons, and was off and running for many years. As I remember, the soaking process was done over several days - I was a kid in high school at the time, so that's been more years than I want to remember.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Did this very thing on an old Wisconsin engine that had been sitting outside on a baler for quite a long time. The muffler was gone and the engine had taken on some water. It took some time and work, but when the pistons finally came loose and were removed, I just honed the cylinders, replaced pistons, and was off and running for many years. As I remember, the soaking process was done over several days - I was a kid in high school at the time, so that's been more years than I want to remember.

Yep, the old 2-cylinder and 4-cylinder Wisconsins were notorious for that... very rugged air cooled engines as long as the water was kept out of them. IIRC, the exhaust and muffler were straight up and easily caught water. We had a couple of them on the farm years ago and always tied a metal bucket down over the exhaust as soon as they were shut down.



Bill

 

[NIsaacs]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys, no one gets a cigar yet tho Dang thing is still stubborn, I will let it soak some more.



I did call Bingham Equipment in Mesa, they say parts are still available from Ford, New Holland or aftermarket so thats a good sign. The Ford industrial tractor is the only piece of Ford equipment they deal with. I think this one is a 1975 model so it is an early one.



Nick

 

[Nyoest]

I have heated ATF in a coffe can and poured in the cyl as a penetrating oil.

Do you have access to an air hammer? I would try using that from under neath then a round of BFH from the top.

 

[Wingate]

Fill the cylinders with oil, jack up the rear of the tractor and put the trans in gear... you can rock the wheel and usually get it to bust free... .

I freed one up with the head still on it by pulling the injectors and filling it with a mix of WD-40 and MMO... Jacked it up and put one wheel in a bind by using a come-along and a tree... after about 2 days I saw slack in the cable... . it had freed up!!!.

 

[Nyoest]

Fill the cylinders with oil, jack up the rear of the tractor and put the trans in gear... you can rock the wheel and usually get it to bust free... .

I freed one up with the head still on it by pulling the injectors and filling it with a mix of WD-40 and MMO... Jacked it up and put one wheel in a bind by using a come-along and a tree... after about 2 days I saw slack in the cable... . it had freed up!!!.

Good idea!



One more thought gleaned from the king of obsolete. He took a starter apart and welded the drive gear to about a nine foot bar to free a cat engine. Prolly won't have room for that gitup in a industrial loader but... ... .

 

[bladehauler]

Mix atf and acetone about 50-50 and let sit in the cylinders for a day or so . the atf will be carried in by the wicking affect of the acetone. works the best out of anything Ive tried.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

TAKE YOUR TIME, this is a job that will turn expensive if you rush it. Some of the antique tractor guys use acetone and MMO to soak for MONTHS before trying to break the pistons free. As mentioned before jack one rear wheel off the ground, put the transmission in high gear and rock the wheel back and forth once a day till it breaks free.

 

[TFucili]

I have owned a few of those engines. I believe the last one I had was a 201 cid. They shake a bit, but are very reliable and long lasting. The weak link, though, is if the cooling system is not serviced, you can get enough pitting to end up with coolant in the crankcase, requiring a bore and sleeve operation.

 

[NIsaacs]

"The weak link, though, is if the cooling system is not serviced"



Exactly, this is what the down fall was on this tractor. The radiator was plugged solid. It has a poor design with the hydraulic tank and pump in front of the radiator. Any oil seepage will hit the radiator and then dirt collects. It was run hot and the head gasket burned out between #3 piston and a water jacket port. I think the head is ok and I have it at the machine shop now along with the radiator.



After 5 days of soaking and trying most of the suggestions I finally brought out the 12 pound sledge. I did damage the pistons but the cylinder walls cleaned up nice. Once they broke loose, they were easy to remove. I know this was probably premature but I only have a small shop and can't spend the time. I need it done and out. Besides I might forget the sequence needed to replace everything



I ordered an aftermarket in-frame overhaul kit, "Advantage" brand?? anyone hear of them?? They sell Federal-Mogul, Mahle-Clevite and Maxi-Force kits also, for other applications, all trucks or tractors.



Thanks, Nick