Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Formerly Depressed re: my VP44, now encouraged!

[RobbyRam]

Thank you for your replies to my other "Go back to Gasser" thread. I really appreciate your answers to my problems with my truck. My wife was overwhelmed!



I've emailed 'DragDiesel' and 'HVAC' at your recommendations.

My truck just sat a couple of days, and tonight I started it over and over again, sometimes it started on the first crank, sometimes the 10th, but always started.



My question is?... With these symptoms, is it definitely my injection pump, or maybe just air getting in the supply line? or even something else? I don't want to spend $$$$. 00 just to find out I have some air getting in a supply line. How can I check it to be sure?



I have recentley replaced my 4th lift pump and it puts out a steady 15 PSI at key turn on. Then, if I repeatedley start it one time after another, (with 'wait to start' light never coming back on), it starts right up sometimes, or, doesn't start after several crank-overs. BTW, the problem never appeared until after my last lift pump replacement, but it definitley is progressively worse.



Any additional advice is appreciated,

Thanks again for your welcome responses,

Bob, in Sacramento(RobbyRam)

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by RobbyRam

I have recentley replaced my 4th lift pump and it puts out a steady 15 PSI at key turn on.



BTW, the problem never appeared until after my last lift pump replacement, but it definitley is progressively worse.

I went through a similar situation with my truck.



VP44 went out, after 1 week running with a new lift pump. Ne telling how long the original lift pump had not been working. I only found out it wasn't working when I put gauges on the truck, I couldn't reprime the filter.



Sounds like a VP44.



Piers Has 44's for sale for around ~$1,350. http://www.piersdiesel.com/



I can get them also, but I don't have them in stock.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[rashwor]

Had the same symptoms as you...

Mine would turn over for up to 10 seconds before firing when trying to start after the truck had been run a while (everything up to operating temps after a road trip). It would start fine when it was cold (first start of the day) or if you poured water on the VP44 and cooled it down. Turned out to be the VP44. You can check the codes on the truck. There is a code for incorrect injector pump timing (unfortunately I don't remember what it is, but you can ask for it here and someone will chime in). If you have this code and your symptoms match the ones above, odds are your VP44 is toast. Mine was.



Good luck! Gassers are not the answer.

 

[HVAC]

Scan It

If your injection pump is faulty I would expect it to show up on a scanner. There is a code for a bad pump. Maybe Ken Imler can perform this task?



Regarding the fuel system, check all the banjos and tighten them. However, if you have a fuel system leak, it would not effect starting until after the truck had sat for some time. Once the engine is fired and shut off, it should start right up. So when you were repeatedly refiring it in the driveway it should have been consistant and only required brief cranking. IOW, not fire on the first revolution one time and then on the tenth the next.

 

[24V-DSL]

Perhaps the code rashwor is referring to is..... P0216. Injection Pump Timing Failure. That's the one I had, and a new VP44 at Piers' shop Monday cured all of my problems, along with a PDR cam, just for more fun. I've posted about my injection pump "problems/symptoms" over the past few months. You could check the posts out for more detail. Also, there have been other member posts about the 0216 code, and it appears to me that the fix was a new VP.

 

[rashwor]

24V-DSL

24V-DSL,



that is the one! Or should that be Sorry I was unable to remember the specific one. The new pump cured all my problems, but a new cam probably would not have hurt anything!

 

[RobbyRam]

I have no codes set, and my Cummins Quick Check II (QC II)and my other OBD II Scanner shows NO stored Active or Inactive codes.

I one time did set a P0216-"Injection timing control circuit malfunction" when I accidentally unplugged my Edge Comp in the cab with the engine running going down the highway. The 'Check Engine' light went on. After I plugged the box back to the cable, the light finally went out after about two days, and the P0216 code stayed in the inactive part of my QC II, so I erased the fault code with the OBD II scanner, and it never came back.

Bob in Sacramento

 

[Thob]

If it is your Vp44 I saw one for sale in the TDR classifieds.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Originally posted by RobbyRam

I have recentley replaced my 4th lift pump and it puts out a steady 15 PSI at key turn on.

Are you saying that without twitching the engine over you are getting 15 psi? When I first turn the key on I hear the lift pump for a quick second and it only registers about 3 psi, then I start the truck and it goes up to 15 psi. Or if I crank the truck and don't start it it goes to 15 psi. Shouldn't be 15 psi just turning the key on.

 

[RobbyRam]

Yes, when I first turn on the key my fuel pressure gauge shows 15 psi for a moment the gradually goes down to zero, but since the wait to start lite goes out when is at about 5 psi (about 3 'dings' from the key in ignition bell)that's where I usually start the truck. It starts right up when cold,after only 2 1/2 cranks, but when warm, takes

10 to 20 cranks, or even 30.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Robby. Did you torque the injector lines to 29 lb ft or did you tighten them to gudentight. I overtightened mine and screwed up the little orings on the injector connector tubes and I had long starts when warm. I replaced the orings and connector tubes and all is fine now. I replaced the connector tubes just for good measure they appeared to be fine. The orings were trashed on 3 of the cylinders.



I just replaced my crank positioning sensor on my newer truck and it was doing an intermittent no start when hot. Also it had an intermittent rough idle and loss of tach function so you couldnt miss it.

 

[RobbyRam]

I guess I'm a little frustrated about why there is no AFTERMARKET DIFFINITVE test, or test procedure, to determine what a specific problem is!, other than to go to a ... *&^%&er ship... (Is that OK Mr. Patton?) Cummins West in Sacramento wants $147 to just hook up my rig to their test equipment, and they even admit they are not sure if they could positively confirm it would be the VP44. Next thought. . If the VP44 is as great as CUMMINS says it is, why did they change now to Common Rail Injection?

Bob in Sacramento

 

[Red Rocket]

Go to cummins

I just had my vp replaced. Actually my dealer did the replacement, but cummins diagnosed it in about a half hour, the day after I sat at the dealer for two hours waiting for them to tell me thay think my turbo is out because they found 1 overboost code. Funny thing is, the guy at cummins said that overboost code, could even be a mistake, but get this, my p0216 timing failure code had been set over 600 times. Yes, 600 and they still thought it was the turbo. Anyway, My quickcheck did show the code, so if it's not there, you may want to double check, but cummins was a good call for me, but that's your decision. If you need more info pm me.



Nick