FPPF Total Power And winter fuel issues

[Turbo Terry]

1999 2500 165 k 275 hp injectors edge box turned up DTT transmission 89 % t c smart controller bd exhaust brake So in Alaska where I live there is only two places to get #2 diesel in the winter. Fairbanks and Glennallen. This is for the big trucks coming in and going out on the Alaska hwy and to Prudhoe Bay oil fields up north. They have heated tanks and I assume use some kind of anti gel. In Anchorage no # 2 in the winter. A 50/50 blend or straight #1 or a mix ??? Well my truck will die at idle when I put it in drive or reverse as it’s not idling fast enough and when the torque converter hits it . Restart. Worse in reverse and if the exhaust brake is on of course. Been doing this for the last 20 years. In the summer when we get # 2 I fill red plastic 5 gallon jugs with #2 and anti gel. 5 gallons #2 to 15 gallons of winter fuel keeps it from happening. Dodge knew about this problem years ago but didn’t really care. And I have gotten by every winter. Well in the last maybe 4 years I have been using total power. I stopped using Stanadyne I have noticed that if I use a pretty heavy dose of total power it does not die and I might not need to keep doing the 5 gallon trick. Or maybe my torque converter is getting weak and it does engage as hard when putting in gear. Who knows but I make this post because it might help some one else and to get some feed back on this issue. Thanks for reading.

 

[JR]

Dodge can't control the quality of fuel you are buying...

Two quick ways to eliminate the torque converter as your problem.Does the engine rev freely in park? Down on power while underway?

I'm surprised you are having problems up there. I would have thought Alaska of all places would have winterized fuel figured out. Using summer diesel in the winter could be problematic even if you are treating it. (I think I read that right). Additives are best used with fuel already winterized. It could be that you are simply not getting the CFPP (cold filter plug point) low enough. Best to use summer blend fuel during the warmer weather.

 

[Ozymandias]

If it dies at idle under a slight load, like put in gear. Then the problem lies in the engine control and not fuel side.
Idle speed is not a fixed thing, the ECM adjusts it to keep it a given rpm.

Conclusion; check for your idle system.

 

[JR]

Ozy I'm not sure if I'm following. By nature a diesel engine like the one in question will increase fueling as load increases. Is that what you are saying?

Regardless, speaking from a fuel gelling perspective.
The fuel could be gelled fo the point where it is able to idle but any increased load is too much to pass through the filter. There has to be an alignment of multiple factors for this to happen, mainly temperature vs fuel climatization, and it is a small window. But I have seen it happen a few times.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ozy I'm not sure if I'm following. By nature a diesel engine like the one in question will increase fueling as load increases. Is that what you are saying?

Regardless, speaking from a fuel gelling perspective.
The fuel could be gelled fo the point where it is able to idle but any increased load is too much to pass through the filter. There has to be an alignment of multiple factors for this to happen, mainly temperature vs fuel climatization, and it is a small window. But I have seen it happen a few times.

Yep that is what i mean.

His post is difficult to read, but to me it only dies at idle, as soon as he uses the accel pedal it is fine.
Even the EB kills it means it doesn't ramp up fueling by itself as load increases.

And it is heavily tuned, makes it not easier....

 

[Turbo Terry]

Sorry this is not a fuel gelling issue it is a btu issue. #2 has more btu s then #1 and is the premium for this truck but can’t get number 2 in the winter here. If I could I could treat # 2 with anti gel and be happy. So I get what’s called winter fuel here which tends to be 50/50 or more # 1. The fuel company’s can’t have diesel trucks gelling up at 15 f degrees with # 2 because someone didn’t use anti gel bad for business. The truck dies because the #1 is not hot enough and the engine idles at a lower speed and when it goes
In to gear at idle it dies. No way to adjust the idle rpm on this truck

 

[Turbo Terry]

_#1 gels and about -40 I think

 

[Turbo Terry]

#1 is kerosene or jet fuel

 

[JR]

#1 diesel fuel is simply a more refined version of#2. It has more of the parafin waxes stripped from the fuel at the refinery which is what causes fuel to gel. You are correct that it does have slightly less btu and is more expensive.

 

[Ozymandias]

Sorry this is not a fuel gelling issue it is a btu issue. #2 has more btu s then #1 and is the premium for this truck but can’t get number 2 in the winter here. If I could I could treat # 2 with anti gel and be happy. So I get what’s called winter fuel here which tends to be 50/50 or more # 1. The fuel company’s can’t have diesel trucks gelling up at 15 f degrees with # 2 because someone didn’t use anti gel bad for business. The truck dies because the #1 is not hot enough and the engine idles at a lower speed and when it goes
In to gear at idle it dies. No way to adjust the idle rpm on this truck

Correct, it should adjust it by itself, yours doesn't do it apparently. There is the problem.

 

[Turbo Terry]

The ecm should adjust for the different fuels Really in a 1999. Did not know that

 

[Ozymandias]

I think so yes it does, switch on or off Aircon, hot or cold oil, in gear or just idling. That all needs corrected. Otherwise it would just die - like yours. Idle speed must always stay within +/-10 rpm all the time.
Does yours fluctuate anyways? Summer also but without die?

There is a bazillion of this trucks running up north in the great cold but I've never read in this forum about shut down just by using #1 fuel.

 

[Ozymandias]

Rpm must be between 850 and 900 in gear.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Mine is about 790 800 idling right now drops down to about 600 625 when I put it in gear.

 

[Turbo Terry]

And it doesn’t die if I use a huge dose of total power

 

[Turbo Terry]

That’s on winter fuel. On #2 in the summer idles at 900 925

 

[Ozymandias]

Mine is about 790 800 idling right now drops down to about 600 625 when I put it in gear.

That tells me that your system isnt working like it is designed to, as soon as the rpm drops under the set point the ECM should fuel up, and it doesn't. Why? Who knows, with a workshop tester its maybe possible to examine why it isnt fueling.

I googled around a bit and stumbled about some forum posts from people with heavily tuned 24V, some worked it out with turning a torx screw at the VE and afterwards reset the APPS.
Some others just lived with the problem.
It never happened to a stock vehicle to my findings.

May you want to search in this direction..

 

[Ozymandias]

That’s on winter fuel. On #2 in the summer idles at 900 925

We all run on a mix of kerosene/diesel during the winter, thats the common way to produce winter diesel.
In Switzerland we have this blend all year round at the pump.
In Scandinavia they run on pure kerosene with some lube additives.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Good info all and thank you I must say. The total power might be the magic bullet for me No more dumping 2 diesel in the garage I will 70 in June. And I still like my dodge Cummins the same as the day I bought it