Fram response RE: Fram oil filters in Cummins 5.9

[dpope]

Since we're on the topic of oil filters, who makes the NAPA Gold oil filter? Is it NAPA or some other OEM?

 

[illflem]

Wix makes Napa Gold and also makes the Fleetguard fuel filters.

 

[Bigramguy]

illflem - good point on the Frams. I have been installing Frams at my shop for 15 years,never had a problem. Just what my supplier has always carried,and most people ask for. I will agree they are don't look like the best filter ever made if you open one up,but they seem to work. We have several customers with 4-500,000 on their cars,and Fram filters. Never would install one on a diesel though.

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by Briar Hopper

You seem to always have a contrary opinion on most threads, illflem.

I just get tired of follow the leader type posting here where folks with little/no experience with a product slam them. Sometimes I just interject my opinion so some folks will maybe think for themselves even though I don't use a product.



I'm sure if Fram produced a filter that caused damage as often as people here would lead you to believe they would have been out of business long ago instead of the number one seller. You only hear of more Frams failing because more of their filters are in use, any brand can fail.

I'll bet if you did a nationwide survey of Cummins owners that most are using non DC approved filters more than likely installed at Jiffy-Lube, they aren't broken down all over the place and are problem free all the way to till they're sold.

I don't use Fram but just don't like seeing any product getting an unwarranted bad rap.

 

[jwilliams3]

Illflem,

It is a warranted "bad wrap".

Cummins had to cover warranty on engines that were killed by a Fram filter, and other "el Cheapo" brands filter media becoming lodged in and blocking oil flow through the piston cooling nozzle.

Which would in short order cause a piston to overheat and seize.



I guess you just have to see one, or two or three... .....

On this situation im sorry to inform you Illflem,

you know what your talking about.



--Justin

 

[Extreme1]

I'll slip my opinion in here...

before this turns into another :-{}



While reading the Fram response, it seemed to me like they were stating that there is now way a plugged cooling nozzle could be caused by anything from their filter. The engines examined had the usual (?!?) accumulation of forgien material in the cooling nozzles.



WTF!?!?!



The usual amount? Not from their filter? What, it came in with the new oil?



There is no way I install a product from a company with an attitude like that, no matter how good it is! (And theirs are at the bottom of the list of good, I've seen the insides of many filters over the years. )



Their "racing" filter is indentical to the standard filter except for the extra thick case (at the bargain price of $18).



Sorry for the rant, I feel better now.

 

[jmadden]

It's not a diesel related page, but check out this site for another look at oil filters... only looks at one size, the one for most Ford V8s (Motorcraft FL1A and the equivalent from other makers):



http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html



The next link gives the opinion of the guy doing the study...



http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilters.html



It all makes for some interesting reading... but I won't tell you what he says about Fram... look for yourself. On a related note, at the time of the study the Mopar Severe Duty (in the size he's evaluating) was a Fram Extra Guard.



Enjoy!



jm

 

[Sled Puller]

Re: I'll slip my opinion in here...

Originally posted by Extreme1



Their "racing" filter is indentical to the standard filter except for the extra thick case (at the bargain price of $18).



Sorry for the rant, I feel better now.

And Summit Racing sells those. "Racing only" the catalog says. I can't believe some of the crap they sell, just becuase it is labled racing.

The sorry thing about it, is Summit does not give catalog space to any product that does not sell BIG NUMBERS. Can you imagine how many of these things are going on to pride and joy$? LOL!

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by jmadden



On a related note, at the time of the study the Mopar Severe Duty (in the size he's evaluating) was a Fram Extra Guard.

Just for the record the Mopar filter that goes on our CTD's is made by Fleetguard.

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by Pit Bull

Just for the record the Mopar filter that goes on our CTD's is made by Fleetguard.

While that's true, the factory filter is cellulose (paper), whereas our beloved LF3894 is a synthetic filtration media (stratapore).

 

[lmills]

I must say that I personally have seen problems with Fram filters and will never use them again. You only have to cost me once on a $4,000 engine to lose me faith. I will never trust them with my Cummins.

 

[jimk]

filter

Originally posted by curatchko

A FRAM STORY



I occasionally dyno an engine that I build for various racers, and this was a friends Small Block Chevrolet, roughly 800 horse 410 cubic inchs. NOT a cheap engine.



Well we show up at the dyno shop and the guy I did this for shows up with a Fram oil filter. I told him I'm not a fan of those and he's telling me that's all he's ever used. Okay... I'm sure it won't be a problem right now... changes oil after every race anyhow... . no big deal



We get everything set up and begin warming up the engine and breaking it in.



For those not aware, a common thing is to plug or remove the bypass valve under the oil filter on a wet sump type oiling system.



Long story short. We begin noticing that the oil pressure is falling off... slowly diving towards zero... . we're only putting a slight load on the engine at around 2200 rpm just for a break in so no big emergency..... we shut it down, and I cut the filter apart to see if there is any bearing damage. NONE... . just normal stuff in the element.



So, he sticks another fram filter on there and we start over again pressure is fine now... . wierd. Well **** after about 15 minutes pressure starts falling off again. So now I'm not sure if it's a temperature issue in the block... crack in an oil galley??? WTF??



Pull the filter again, cut it open again... nothing. I told him to go get an AC Delco filter this time and quick screwing around.



Wouldn't ya know it... . pressure was good... everything was good all day long.



NEVER USE A FRAM FILTER.

I use to block the by pass also and run the two quart truck filter(AC Delco) on the engines I ran, small and big block chevrolets. I would start the engine and let the oil and water temp come up before I accelerated the engine. I got the info fron Bill Jenkins. Use Fleet Gaurd Filters, I think that there is a Guy that Dodge tried to renege on the warranty because he had a filter fail from a bad by pass on his 24 valve engine. The filter was Fleet Guard. That really ticked me. Save the fram oil filter for your wheel borrow and use the Fleet Guard or Mopar. If I had warranty I would get it in writing on the filter that was approved and use it. If the cummins is ever gone from the Dodge I am through with them. JimK

 

[lmills]

I never read the above thread that you quoted, but that was very similar to what happened to us. Me and a couple friends are typical "budget racers" that do it for fun. We had a big block that we had built that would only carry 40 psi of oil pressure, no matter what rpm the engine was running. Well, my bro-in-law, a really smart one, owned the engine , when he went to fire it up one morning it stalled out. When he went to restart it he gave it some throttle , when it started the oil pressure gauge shot up to 75 psi. He took the car up to the local shop and was telling the owner about what had happened. Upon examination they noticed the oil filter looked like a basketball. The owner showed him a bunch of info he had pulled off the internet about how cheaply made the filters were. Needless to say, they won't be on anything of mine.

 

[WadePatton]

Yes, some time ago Fram was a reputable aftermarket filter.



Now if you go into a "bargain basement" parts store, you'll see Fram orange everywhere and it's way cheap. They're selling tons of Fram filters and other cheap parts. Doesn't make me want to buy one.



When friends ask me what filter and oil (for gassers), I say Mobile One and the most expensive filter the store has and NEVER Fram.



Yep, there's GADzillion Fram and Quickie oil-change filters on the road and most of them will suit the purpose adequately, BUT I don't like being included with that crowd. I spend a little more time and care and money changing oil because I know why and want my stuff to last a LONG time.



My 330,000 mile 302 gasser leaks a bit, but she runs fine and don't smoke at all. I expect two or three times that mileage out of the Cummins. I'm not going to risk that by letting any oil monkeys under my truck or by installing CHEAP PARTS or FILTERS.

 

[Steve M]

I don't use Fram filters either but all this puzzles me. Fram has a good warranty and stands behind it. They have paid for damages that their filters have caused to Cummins engines in Dodge pickups. It's not excessive but the few that have caused damage are what we remember. Wix has also been down that road with Dodge Cummins trucks. Wix filters have come apart and the filter media clogged piston cooling nozzles resulting in scored cylinder walls and catastrophic engine failure. Read some of the first issues of TDR... Yet Wix filters are considered quality filters here.

But what puzzles me the most is, why so down on Fram who has a good warranty, is very reasonably priced, has been around for decades, and stands behind their product, yet we'll go out and spend over $60 for an air filter that states in writing there is no warranty and they won't stand behind it in any way, Cummins recommends not using it, and there are documented cases of engine damage caused by the air filter in both racing applications and private use. Does the fancy writing on the box and cool sticker along with an unreasonably high price automatically mean quality and performance even though real data says otherwise?

Fleetguard oil, air, and fuel filters from Geno's for me.

 

[Pit Bull]

Steve that is a very good point on air filters. I'm with you on what I use on my truck, Mopar or Fleetguard all the way.

 

[WadePatton]

Well, for me, warranties are nothing but sales crap. If it has to used--and you can get them to stand behind it, etc. --not saying they don't or you can't. Just that you'll be happier if it's never an issue.



Remember the Chebbie guy that had a warranty buy-back and was without a $40k truck for 10 months?



And I'm sticking to the BHAF--thinking about hanging it on the side in a big box like the Peterbuilts!

 

[curatchko]

Originally posted by illflem



I'm sure if Fram produced a filter that caused damage as often as people here would lead you to believe they would have been out of business long ago instead of the number one seller. You only hear of more Frams failing because more of their filters are in use, any brand can fail.

Most people would never know an oilfilter failed because there is always a safe guard called an Oil Bypass valve that opens in case the filter plugs... .



So no, Fram could be in business suckering people forever.

 

[mbaston]

BHAF

I spend my life around acronyms and can't keep them all straight. So, what is a BHAF? When I first changed the airfilter in my 2000, I was told the K&N was the way to go. Now it seems to be a "bad boy". I have 118,000 miles on my truck and it needs to last much longer.

 

[jimk]

air cleaner

Steve is right about the WIX, and they make the filter for NAPA to their spec ts, what ever that is. I need to get rid of the KN also. It may be OK, but it looks like it could give me trouble.

On the warrant issue ,first what are going to do for a truck while it torn up, I have yet to see any one that wont to fix my truck with out some grief. East of Wichita Falls is a dealer who has worked on a friend truck and several times he finally bought a Ford Powerstroke and got rid of the new DODGE. When the dealer says that is the reason the Chevrolet cost more do you wont to put up with that kind of BS. So the long and Short of it to do what ever is possible to keep the truck out of the shop, if possible