Frequency of lifter failure in CGI 6.7 ?

[Diesel85]

I'm not familiar with the B50 designation. What is it?

Engine makers are providing customers a gauge to help them determine how dependable and durable an engine is supposed to be, called a B-life rating. It’s regarded as the industry standard for measuring the life expectancy of an engine, but the figures are sometimes misunderstood.

The most frequently heard ratings are B10 and B50. B10 is the expected engine life in miles of operation, many times 1 million, before 10% of all of a specific model of engines in operation will require a major repair, overhaul or replacement, according to Navistar. B50 is 50%.

 

[BigPapa]

Engine makers are providing customers a gauge to help them determine how dependable and durable an engine is supposed to be, called a B-life rating. It’s regarded as the industry standard for measuring the life expectancy of an engine, but the figures are sometimes misunderstood.

I learn something new every day.

 

[Jim W]

Actually, the "B" life ratings are used industry wide to define the life expectancy of components. Such as pumps, motors, cylinders, structures, transmission and engines to name a few. Even air and oil filters.

When I was at Caterpillar, we used this all of the time to define life expecting of components. Usually, any failures rate above the "B-10"life (10%) at Cat required a redesign of the system to reduce downtime to the customer and cost of repair.

At Caterpillar a "B50" rate would be totally unacceptable in any component, at least when I worked there. I can name at least two complete line of machines that were bought back from the customers who purchased them. Because the failure rate was over 25% for these machines and then they were all scraped.

Just a side note.

 

[Grumpy8811]

I'm not familiar with the B50 designation. What is it?

Quote;

B10 Engine Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 10 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 7.3L Power Stroke has a B10 life of 200,000 miles. Therefore, 10 percent of all engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 200,000 miles.

B50 Engine Life
The expected engine life, measured in miles of operation, before 50 percent of all engines in operation will require major repair(s), overhaul, or replacement.
Example: The 5.9L Cummins has a B50 life of 350,000 miles. Therefore, half of the engines in operation can be expected to require an overhaul at/near 350,000 miles.
An "overhaul" or "major repair" is considered a repair that requires removal of the cylinder heads or dropping of the oil pan. Failure/replacement of components that are accessible without removing the heads or dropping the oil pan do not attribute to B10/B50 life expectancy measurements.
B10 & B50 life are statistical measurements of engine life. As such, they don't represent a definite time when your engine will require a repair or overhaul. Proper maintenance and care will ensure that you get the most from your engine. Following the OEM maintenance recommendations will help ensure that your engine meets of exceeds the manufacturers life expectancy. Quote https://www.dieselhub.com/tech/b10-b50-life.html

 

[Grumpy8811]

Actually, the "B" life ratings are used industry wide to define the life expectancy of components. Such as pumps, motors, cylinders, structures, transmission and engines to name a few. Even air and oil filters.

I worked in a large fleet... 700+ vehicles.. We sort of had our own B 50 theory, developed from our own use pattern and requirements...
for instance about 90% of our fleet had 9 thru 11 litre diesels, basically if they got to the point where they were past 500k miles, there was a good chance we would just replace the complete engine instead of fooling around with it if it needed a fairly expensive or involved repair... the equipment that had B series Cummins the number was anywhere between 300 to 350k as the general expectation of service life.. that didn't mean some of them didn't go past that point either but if those B series developed issues, we just replaced them as a package... Just wasn't worth it to us to make a smaller repair only for it to come back in a few months with something else..

 

[Grumpy8811]

And even then, B50 or better, something can still happen.

I'm getting too old to care about these "little" things.

I'll give you a perfect example of that.. my employer buys five Ram 5500 Service Trucks in 2009.. brand new trucks... one truck the engine grenades around 8000 miles, it hasn't even had an oil change yet. The other 4 stay in service for ten years with no repairs to the engine ever. The short life span truck also does the same thing, after the dealer replaces the engine.

 

[cricha]

I'll give you a perfect example of that.. my employer buys five Ram 5500 Service Trucks in 2009.. brand new trucks... one truck the engine grenades around 8000 miles, it hasn't even had an oil change yet. The other 4 stay in service for ten years with no repairs to the engine ever. The short life span truck also does the same thing, after the dealer replaces the engine.

That illustrates it pretty well. Never heard of this until now, great to know. Thanks for the input from everyone.

 

[Signal73]

So anyhow back on topic, there has been a fair amount, nobody can say how many but if you delve outside of the TDR there is plenty of photographic evidence of lifter failure. Many hear ticks that are items other than lifters, and say their lifters are gone and that’s a whole different story. So the Internet numbers may be skewed. Good thing is, there is a aftermarket fix available and Hamilton cams has the answer. It gets rid of the “problematic” hydraulic lifters and returns your truck to how Clessie pictured it. Flat tappet and all. Not cheap or easy but such is life….

 

[Grumpy8811]

Good thing is, there is a aftermarket fix available and Hamilton cams has the answer. It gets rid of the “problematic” hydraulic lifters and returns your truck to how Clessie pictured it. Flat tappet and all. Not cheap or easy but such is life….

That potential problem is one of those "deal with it if it happens" because in this case due to the size of the job it makes little sense to replace anything before it breaks.. because it probably never will.

 

[Signal73]

That potential problem is one of those "deal with it if it happens" because in this case due to the size of the job it makes little sense to replace anything before it breaks.. because it probably never will.

That’s my plan.

 

[Shade Tree]

sometimes I think "stories" get passed around on the internet and take on a life of their own that make all sorts of potential problems seem common when reality is the real issue is microscopic in numbers.
This thought applies to all things mechanical, a perfect example is someone saying that Fram Filters are orange cans of death whereas you can't actually find anyone that uses Fram that had a problem with them. Same applies to the new engines and the hydraulic lash adjusters... I'm sure a few of them have failed, just because mechanical failures occur happens when products are produced in the hundreds of thousands, but chances are nobody knows anyone it happened to..

Ram and Cummins Inc are probably the only people who know the actual failure rate.

Watch a filter u tube where they cut open a Fram and a few others . Their construction is defiantly inferior to Wix and Fleet Guard . there were a couple of others that were cheaply constructed also . See it for yourself .

 

[Grumpy8811]

Watch a filter u tube where they cut open a Fram and a few others . Their construction is defiantly inferior to Wix and Fleet Guard . there were a couple of others that were cheaply constructed also . See it for yourself .

seen several of those, but those videos also go a long way towards proving the theory you can't judge a book by its cover.

Any adequate testing of any filter includes particle count and pressure testing, not inspecting the internal parts the guts and relying on the statment that they look "inferior" as carrying alot of weight.

I remember when the Glock first hit the market and people thought it wouldn't work because it was "plastic".

Maybe Fram's method of manufacture is less expensive while still providing adequate filtration?

Either way, judging a book by its cover is not an practical way to test a filter nor make a rational decision on auto parts unless you carry a large amount of X chromosome..