2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Front Brakes on my 95 2500...

[surfbeetle]

So today I rotate my tires and notice that the inside pads on the front are worn down closer that I would like especially with the summer camping trips I have coming up. It had been 3 1/2 years since the last set. I call the local Pep Boys to verify they have pads. The guy asks if my truck is 8800 gvw. I could not remember so I go out and look. Yes it is. He says they have pads. I pull out my old pads, (I get lifetime warranty replacements, wear included) and go exchange them.



I come home and attempt an install, it seems as if I can't compress the caliper far enough to get the pads to slide onto the rotor. I pull out the old receipt and see that the part number I had before was different than the current part number. I go back to Pep Boys. Yes the part number I was given today is correct for 8800 gvw.

I give him the part number from my old receipt, that's not the part for the 8800 but rather the lower weight rating and of course he's out and I have to go across town to get it. The 8800 pads are thicker than the ones I ended up with.



So after that long (I'm sorry) narration, I ask this, aren't the 2500 and 3500 caliper and discs the same? Is it just a screw up on Pep Boys computer?

 

[SRath]

You said you can't compress the calipers far enough, but you didn't say if they were fully compressing or not. The pistons should compress fully flush with the caliper bore, but often develop a ridge line over time that prevents it.

Be careful not to overflow your master cylinder when compressing them that far. Brake fluid can be nasty stuff on paint and plastics.

BTW, do you have a Dana 70 or 80 rear axle? If it is an 80, I would think you definitely have the 8800 lb HD 2500 with the same front brakes as the 3500.

 

[surfbeetle]

Yes, the calipers were fully compressed and I do in fact have a Dana 80. I re-geared the truck a few years ago and had to verify that fact before getting parts. All that I can think is either there must be a mistake on their computer system (Insert Sarcasm here, No a computer could never be wrong... ) or there was a change in the calipers later in production that would use the pads I could not get to fit. I am still running the original calipers.

 

[SRath]

Is there any chance of finding a different parts store; maybe one with an old hand that still knows how to cross-check using books or other resources?

The bottom line would be to use the pads that fit, like the ones that came off it, of course, and not worry about the difference between them and what you thought should fit.

 

[surfbeetle]

Yup, that would be me... It's not the first time that I have had to do that with them. I ended up using the part number from my last receipt with them and got the correct parts. Another time I had an issue with a suburban that I used to have and it's rear drums. I had to look it up in their book and get the drums that were listed for a mid 80's model truck rather than my 97 suburban. But they are the closest place and as I mentioned, I get free pads from them so I put up with it. I just need to remember to cross check myself before I leave there.

 

[Skydiver]

A little tip. When I do a brake job, I open the bleeder before I compress the caliper or piston. Helps get fresh brake fluid in the system. I don't like flushing the nasty used brake fluid back up into the lines. Sometimes I use a turkey baster to remove fluid from the master reservoir and wipe it clean with a lint free cloth before refilling.

 

[JDKammin]

All of the Dodge trucks with a Cummins are going to be the 8800 gvw. I have a light duty 2500 that has the 7500 gvw. The front axle in that truck is a Dana 44 with 8 bolt hubs. The rear leaf springs are 2 1/2" wide instead of 3" on a Dana 60 rear axle. I get frustrated with some parts stores too. If you want some front turn signal bulbs, they will ask if it is a 1500 or 2500.

 

[firefighter_2000]

If you want some front turn signal bulbs, they will ask if it is a 1500 or 2500.

And if its two or four wheel drive...

 

[Deezal Man]

Regarding the axles... as I understand it: 2500 with auto transmission had Dana 70 rear. 2500 with manual transmission had Dana 80. (Same as 3500) I'm not aware of a different axle in the front, regardless of GVW. I believe all 2500 & 3500 4x4 trucks have reverse Dana 60 axles. Having said that, I am curious to learn if the GVW does indeed matter for the front brakes. The fact that he asked you is somewhat irrelevent because his computer most likely asked for this information as part of it's standard parts search.

 

[SRath]

One note about the front Dana 60: If by "reverse", you meant that the ring & pinion gears are "reverse cut", that isn't true. The Dana 60's in our trucks use the same gears as a dana 60 rearend.

Ford used "high pinion" Dana 60's which do indeed require a "reverse cut" ring and pinion. The pinion on all Dodge and Chevy Dana axles, to the best of my knowledge, enters the housing and engages the ring gear below the centerline of the ring gear. On Fords (some anyway), the pinion enters the housing and engages the ring gear above the centerline.

 

[Deezal Man]

Interesting... I knew the Dana 60 was not a "high pinion" like the Fords, but I assumed the ring & pinion on our 60s had to be reverse cut. Obviously R & P gears work in 'reverse' otherwise we could not back up our trucks, but I have always thought R & P gears had a designed direction of travel?

 

[surfbeetle]

All of the Dodge trucks with a Cummins are going to be the 8800 gvw. I have a light duty 2500 that has the 7500 gvw. The front axle in that truck is a Dana 44 with 8 bolt hubs. The rear leaf springs are 2 1/2" wide instead of 3" on a Dana 60 rear axle. I get frustrated with some parts stores too. If you want some front turn signal bulbs, they will ask if it is a 1500 or 2500.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but since mine is a 95, 5 speed manual and only two wheel drive, maybe the early production 2nd gens like mine had the 7500 gvw front brakes?



I think that many of the parts guys would be better off asking me if I wanted a spoon straw with my slurpee rather than if my 2500 truck is a 4x4 for the purchase of a wiper blade.

 

[CCiatteo]

... ... ... I think that many of the parts guys would be better off asking me if I wanted a spoon straw with my slurpee rather than if my 2500 truck is a 4x4 for the purchase of a wiper blade.

Yeah and ya know what that would get you? An 8" long straw for 16" tall cup... . :-laf

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I'm having the same problem! 96 2500 2wd CTD, confirmed 8800 GVW on door sticker.



I got Napa Ultra Premium pads and Premium rotors. The pads are just a hair too tight to go on. The caliper is compressed fully, though I'll go out and open the bleeder valve just to be sure.



But I have the right pads!! UP7339SD! At least that's what's on the box. There weren't anyone's greasy fingerprints on it, so I assume the pads in the box are what belongs there. Rotors are the same for 8800 and 7500 GVW, so no parts problem there.



WTF?



BTW, I've been working on cars for 25 years and have replaced more brake pads than I could possibly count, so it's probably not user error... .



edit: Caliper didn't compress any further with bleeder loose. However, the piston is noticeably not flush with the caliper body - like 1/8"+ out. Could it have deposits inside or other problem that causes it to not retract fully? I bent my c-clamp trying to push it in further! FWIW, looking at calipers on NapaOnline, the pistons in new ones appear to also not sit flush with the body.



thanks all



kevin

 

[surfbeetle]

I'm having the same problem! 96 2500 2wd CTD, confirmed 8800 GVW on door sticker.



I got Napa Ultra Premium pads and Premium rotors. The pads are just a hair too tight to go on. The caliper is compressed fully, though I'll go out and open the bleeder valve just to be sure.



But I have the right pads!! UP7339SD! At least that's what's on the box. There weren't anyone's greasy fingerprints on it, so I assume the pads in the box are what belongs there. Rotors are the same for 8800 and 7500 GVW, so no parts problem there.



WTF?



BTW, I've been working on cars for 25 years and have replaced more brake pads than I could possibly count, so it's probably not user error... .



edit: Caliper didn't compress any further with bleeder loose. However, the piston is noticeably not flush with the caliper body - like 1/8"+ out. Could it have deposits inside or other problem that causes it to not retract fully? I bent my c-clamp trying to push it in further! FWIW, looking at calipers on NapaOnline, the pistons in new ones appear to also not sit flush with the body.



thanks all



kevin

I ended up with the 7500 pads and they fit and work fine. I found those pads because I happened to still have the parts box from two years ago when I did my last set. Back then they were the 8800 pads, but now the computer says they are the 7500, same part number for the new set as the ones I bought years ago.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks... Gotta cut the grass now, but I'll go to Napa tomorrow and compare. What a PITA!

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks, all! Truck is back on the road.



Calipers at NAPA had pistons no more retracted than mine were, so no caliper problem. 7500 pads were thinner, and I got a set and put them in. I did have to bend the spring clip on the back of the inside pad a bit so it grabbed the piston fully. Because of that, I'm not convinced this was the _correct_ solution to my problem, but if it isn't, I don't know what is.



Thanks again!



kevin

 

[HHhuntitall]

Realize, guys, that almost always, it is reccommended that you turn the rotors when replacing brake pads. The metal removed from the rotors is supposed to allow the placement of the premium replacement pad. Not that there's anything wrong with using the lower GVW pads, they'll stop you just fine. But you asked why the pads won't fit..... Wagner has several listings. My question is: What do you do if you buy new rotors and want to put new pads on with them? That's where you HAVE to use the smaller pad. Next time you won't, if you have the rotors turned, and will enjoy another 5-10,000 miles of brake life due to the extra pad material.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Not to call "BS", but I'd like to see that recomendation in writing from any manufacturer of brake parts.



The original manufacturer's machined finish is far superior to the finish created by a brake lathe. The only way to duplicate it is with a Bridgeport mill in a machine shop. In fact, most rotors have a label right on the box, saying not to machine them before installing. It makes much more sense to maximize the life of your brake rotors then to reduce their life in the expectation of getting longer pad life, since rotors are more expensive and harder to replace than pads. There are several other reasons I would not buy this alleged recommendation until I see proof.



No offense intended.



kevin

 

[HHhuntitall]

No offense taken, but I think you need to re-read my posting. What I was trying to say was that when replacing pads, it is recommended to turn your OLD rotors when installing new pads. All manufacturers suggest this, and is why rotors are given a minimum turning thickness they can be cut down to. Once your OLD rotors have been cut, the NEW pads available from your local parts store will fit. My dilemna to which I referred you "had" to use the 7500gvw pads is when you buy NEW rotors eventually, and buy NEW pads to put on those NEW rotors. They won't fit. Even with new calipers. And yes, the parts guys almost always insist they are the right parts. "That's what the computer shows!"