Front drive shaft ball joint

[Prairie Dog]

I have a bit of a whine that seems to be coming from my front drive shaft. Changing out the U-Joints is easy enough but given the fact that the ball joint isn't greaseable on my 2003, what is the chance that the pin (that holds the ball) on the drive shaft is still serviceable at 123K and that I can simply replace the ball and seal and be OK?

Scott

 

[Ozymandias]

I messed around with my front driveshaft till i bought a brand new shaft from Mopar that finally solved all my problems.

Dodge changed the design of the shaft several times over the years.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I messed around with my front driveshaft till i bought a brand new shaft from Mopar that finally solved all my problems.

Dodge changed the design of the shaft several times over the years.

I did notice they were up to a Rev. AG now. That's got to be quite a few changes from my early model.
I can get a new mopar part from eBay for $525 (local dealer wants $988!) so that's an option. OTOH, if I can service this one and have it go another 100K, it will only cost me about $50 worth of parts. But would it..?

 

[seafish]

I was one of the 3rd gen truck owners that was SURE that my truck did NOT have the grease fitting not the front cardon joint. This was after THREE different dealership series managers told me my truck didn't have one (DESPITE having a sticker in the engine compartment that was telling me to grease the front card joint at every lube interval) and NOT being able to find it myself. (in hindsight LAME, but I did try to). The explanation/line I got from the different service managers was that at some point in time, Dodge went to a greaseless cardon joint and since my truck was a late model 2005 and since I hadn't actually found it myself I simply chose to believe them.

That is, UNTIL the day that I removed my front driveshaft while doing a major front end overhaul at around 90k miles.

You can perhaps imagine my surprise when after cleaning the cardon joint that I actually SAW the grease fitting that several dealer mechanics and managers had INSISTED was not there and that I had been unable to find myself. Since I was replacing the other drive shaft u joints anyway along with axle shaft joints,, I dissamlebd and inspected the cardon joint. I found it to be dry but NOT damaged. Since it appeared and felt undamaged I chose to disassemble it and thoroughly clean it then reassemble with plenty of good red grease in all of the right locations, That same cordon joint/frint drive shaft it has been in service since.
Of course, part of that front end overhaul included installing free spin hubs which keep the shaft from spinning while in 2wd, unlike the oem hub system, but I now grease the cardan joint at regular intervals and it has worked well since.

My point??

Depending on the use and condition of your front driveshaft, it might well be serviceable and you should probably inspect it closer and then decide what to do. If there is no excessive play or roughness or indications of heat discoloration to the bearing and spring, then you can safely decide to service rather then replace it. That said it does take a bit of elbow grease and a good helping hand to reassemble the double cordon as compared to a regular joint.

Just my LONG .02

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thanks Fish, I think that's what I'm going to do.
One of the benefits of replacing the joints myself is that I can use Spicer UJ's with "normal" zerk fittings.

I remember back in the day when the greaseable joint thing came along - it was all discussed here on the forum.
I wrongly assumed that since I didn't have the wierd grease point, that I couldn't grease my UJ's either.
It was only after they recently started squeaking that I realized they had those flat style grease points but now, it's too late for them.
Stragely, the UJ's at the back, double cardan are greaseable but the front UJ is not.

I think I'll remove the fr. DS in a few weeks when the snow season is over. Then I can leave it off over the summer and enjoy having 2WD-Lo for the RV'ing season.

Scott

 

[Ozymandias]

I did notice they were up to a Rev. AG now. That's got to be quite a few changes from my early model.
I can get a new mopar part from eBay for $525 (local dealer wants $988!) so that's an option. OTOH, if I can service this one and have it go another 100K, it will only cost me about $50 worth of parts. But would it..?

I have somewhere written down my odyssey with (trying) to rebuild my driveshaft, without success.

The todays shaft is so much beefier it isn't worth a dime to spend on the old shaft.

I also mentioned the Part# for the new shaft back then.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I have somewhere written down my odyssey with (trying) to rebuild my driveshaft, without success.

The todays shaft is so much beefier it isn't worth a dime to spend on the old shaft.

I also mentioned the Part# for the new shaft back then.

That's the other part of the story; I went through another one many years ago, maybe on my first gen, and swore I'd never do it again..
But then I'm a little cheap and never seem to learn my lesson. Plus, my application is pretty much stock in regards to tires and use. The only use 4WD gets is the occasional snow storm.
I'll probably take it apart (always the easy part..) and go from there.

 

[Ozymandias]

Prob is the shaft is always turning full speed even in 2WD - except one has FW Hubs.

The latest revision shaft is actually a Gen4 that fits our truck, all 3 U-joint are 1350 and with outside snap rings.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Prob is the shaft is always turning full speed even in 2WD - except one has FW Hubs.

The latest revision shaft is actually a Gen4 that fits our truck, all 3 U-joint are 1350 and with outside snap rings.

Are they greaseable? If so, regular zerks? (I know, a lot to ask..)

 

[Ozymandias]

Are they greaseable? If so, regular zerks? (I know, a lot to ask..)

No, standard sealed units, but still the tiny little grease cup for the ball.

I totally trust into the todays sealed units, they have proven to last within the last 2 decades.
Bumpy at the begin but improved to near perfection.
In a Class8 they last 500k Miles and beyond under every climate condition.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I bought a one piece Dodge DS for the rear. Within 40K miles both UJ's started making noise and had to be replaced about a year apart - they were sealed. (Angles are perfect btw)
So my luck hasn't been so good.

 

[Ozymandias]

There is always a black sheep, that both failed points me to a bad badge of u-joints, maybe lack of grease from factory.
Something was messed up because such an early failure means bad from factory.

Ask our high milage Hot Shots driver how often their driveshafts fail to get a real estimate for the longevity of them.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I let a shop install greaseless UJ's in the rear DS when the oem's failed. So we'll see if it was a fluke (I hope) or they just don't hold up.
I have a long time mechanic buddy that works on heavy construciton equip. He thinks the sealed joints often hold up better because they have better seals than serviceable parts, which have seals that must allow leakage and hence, could let water and contaminates in. Add to that the latter often never get greased anyway.

 

[cerberusiam]

It depends on how badly it is worn and where. The ball is just one piece, in addition there is the socket the ball sits in and the pivot the ball rides in. If those are worn you need new DS pieces installed by drive line shop. If you have an Inland Truck Parts close they should have a shop or use one to source that type of work.

Non-greasable u-joints are a Pandora's box in a lot of ways. By design they should last longer and be stronger but that has some caveats; does it have adequate grease, is the grease high enough quality, will the seals actually hold grease in and contaminants out. The OE AAM u-joints failed on all fronts that make a good non-greasable u-joint.

The Spicers are better as the seals seem to be better with seals but questionable on the grease. The experienced drive line shops will almost always tell you they repack the non-greasables with more high quality grease than they come with to get decent life time. On the other hand if you have zerks and you frequently grease them then the quality and amount can change. As long as you don't rip the seals over greasing no replacement for being able to grease a rotating component.