2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Front rotors replacement, 99 2500 4x4 - HUB assy too??

[BK]

I gents, for years I've tried to be careful and not let the front pads get too low.

Well, just screwed up, they got low, and one of the 4 went metal to metal.



I have to replace the rotors.

Going to go with the slotted rotors from brakeperformance.com, USA made. . on sale now.....

I use the Hawk pads from Genos.....





The Question is, should I just do the bearing in the same shot?



I know it's a premium price to do that, but darn, it has to come out anyway.

The whole drive the wheel studs out, drive new one in... I probably need a few new wheel studs too. Some are a bit finicky when putting the lugs nuts back on.



I live in NY, I have 80K on the truck.



If they were even 100bux each, I would do it - no 2nd thoughts.

But at 300 / unit, it makes me think twice for sure.



Does someone sell a hub with the rotor and studs all put together, with a good rotor?



TIA...



-Bob

 

[CCiatteo]

Go check this thread. I did mine earlier this year and found NEW TIMKEN bearings with studs to my door for $315..... it was a no-brainer at that point... ...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...3236-bearing-hub-replacement-96-3500-4wd.html

Scroll down to post #7 or so..... for the link to the ebay auction

Chris

 

[BK]

Thanks Chris, 516... that's the next county over for me here on Long Island.
I'll give them a ring...

 

[BK]

actually just googled the brakeperformance.com place and seems there are a lot of complaints against them.

Any suggestions for slotted rotors?

tnx
-Bob

 

[BK]

Go check this thread. I did mine earlier this year and found NEW TIMKEN bearings with studs to my door for $315..... it was a no-brainer at that point... ...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...3236-bearing-hub-replacement-96-3500-4wd.html

Scroll down to post #7 or so..... for the link to the ebay auction

Chris

From that link... ...
"Just spoke with Alfredo at the above who was very helpful. His number and extension is 516-678-3900 ext 3229. I have no interest in his company and am not affiliated in any way. He was very helpful and this can be a rarity... "



Chris, again, tnx a bunch.

I learned today you need to talk to Alfredo to get the pricing.
Saved on shipping, since I was able to pass by one of their store fronts and pick up the bearings.
The only thing Alfredo forgot, was that there was 8 studs with each bearing.
I bought 16 separate.
Found out when I got home. I now have 32 studs, they said they will take them back and credit me.

 

[CCiatteo]

I just went with good stock replacement rotors. I run them with Hawk Severe Duty pads and love them. Might want to take a look at the rubber lines at the caliper and the condition of the metal line where the rubber line attaches. My rubber lines were showing their age and the in trying to disassemble them the metal line gave out. So my brake job turned into all new everything, pads, rotors, calipers, lines (rubber and metal) and hubs. This isn't a huge deal, but mean my truck was down for a few days longer than I had originally expected. I think RockAuto had the best prices on the rubber lines.

The pads and rotors I got from a guy I deal with for my hotrod, so I can't offer any help on that front.

Chris

 

[BK]

Thanks for the additional input Chris... .



+1 on the hawk pads... .

I too use the same hawk pads, since my 2nd brake job. Love them.

1st set was a heavy duty set from Pepboys, terrible.



I only had one Hawk set of pads set that sorta fell apart. They started making loud noises, took them apart and found creators of materiel missing in the middle of the pad.



I lost one brake line last year, backing into the drive way, the peddle went to the floor. I considered myself real lucky of when and how the line decided to let loose.

So both are now braided flex teflon lines up front.



I've have brake fade , even with the hawk pads. And still some with the braided lines.

They both did help.

I also have been using the 4+ or 5. 1 brake fluid (some call it one thing, or the other the other) since before I changed to the flex brake lines. Not sure if it makes a difference but it has a much higher boiling point. Near that of synthetic, but it doesn't have to be boiled 1st like synthetic and fully compatible with dot 3 and 4.



I had great improvements on my wife's altima , where she had terrible brake fade, and was wacking out rotors in 10K miles or less.

So after some researching, I bought a set of slotted rotors for her Altima, with great improvments.



I'm getting the same brand of Slotted Rotors for the Ram.

I called them yesterday, and they have them. I couldn't find them on their site.

SP Performance is the brand. I'm buying them through Raceshopper.com , where I've bought the brake parts for my wife's Altima. Their site as lots of good info, but not good for finding part numbers for applications and such, not an E-Store... but the folks there know their stuff when you email or call. They have the hawk pads too, but a bit pricier than Genos.

They aren't too much more than the stock rotors (pricing around here). But I have to wait for them. They weren't in stock, will have them next week. During that conversation, in trying to get them quicker, I found out they are made locally here in NY.



It seems I'll get rained out this weekend anyway.



I ordered the bearing to knuckle bolts, new axle nuts, and the socket from...

quad4x4

found them in one of the threads on here.

A bit pricey, but I'll have the stuff from them by Friday, so between the rain drops maybe I can get all this stuff taken apart and ready for the new parts.



This will be the most involved brake job ever for me!

I've totally rebuilt brake systems before, but never had to deal with getting out the hub axle bearing assy before just to replace a rotor. This stinks!

 

[Dave M]

Be carefull and support the axles and keep them in the axle housing when pulling rotors or you will be replacing the front axle seals!



I just completed replacing my front axle seals this weekend after doing a rotor replacement about 8 months ago. The drivers side leaked after the rotor job when hub was pulled. I'm not sure what I did to cause the leak but here is what I think:

Either the axles came out too far or when the axle drooped down in the housings it deformed the axle seal rubber lip because it was not supported level in the knuckle or after the axle fell out of seal into axle housing and was re-inserted the end of axle got dirt in seal or tore the seal.

I'm telling you this so you won't have to pull out the front differential (Ring and carrier assembly) like I just did to replace my leaky drivers side seal. If the passenger side leaks the differential does not need pulled because that seal is in the outer CAD housing on the outer passenger side axle. My luck it was the drivers side that leaked so all the axles need pulled to get the ring and carrier out so I replaced both seals.



I used the front axle seal kit from Quad4x4 and it made installing the seal very easy and I'd recommend it even if the price is a little high ($155).



Beware: You have been forewarned. Try to get someone to support the axle while you pull the hub. I knew this ahead of time but still could not avoid it by myself without help because the hub/rotor assembly is so heavy (30 lbs) and akward to manage alone. It takes 4 hands.



Good luck,



Dave

 

[BK]

Thanks Dave.
I was wondering about this.
It is me and my two hands.

My drivers side leaked once for a few days years ago, and stopped.
I have no idea way. . maybe some sand got in there.

I was going to use some huge tywraps on the axle ujoints to the Axle C / housing.
I have some 28" ones with 75lbs of holding force, and some 4 footers with 150lbs of holding force.

I was going to partially remove the 4 bolts holding the bearing to the knuckle.
Use the power steering method to press the bearing out via the bolts, and keep the bearing in place till I get back down to it, after jumping out of the driver's seat.

Any place I should be adding more support?
Maybe a floor jack under the bearing - strap the bearing to the floor jack?

tnx much.....

-Bob

 

[Dave M]

The floor jack idea may work. I think wire or straps around the u joint back to the axle housing (toward the diff) and that will at least keep the axle from coming out of the housing when pulling the hub. Another wire strapped around the u joint and up to the upper ball joint or shock may hold it up so it don't sag down when the hub is out. Those axles may weigh 30 lbs themselfs.



It was no fun doing the seals but my carrier was easy to remove. It was a lot of work you don't want to do if you can help it.



Post your progress as you go. There are lots of posts on doing the hubs and I think I read them all and have posted my own too. Quad 4x4 had a good procedure (that came with the seal kit I bought) for doing the seals (which included the hub removal). They offer the seal procedure and just the hub procedure on the site. You might just get the seal procedure and then you will have it all.



Any questions I can answer I will, since I've done the hub/rotor removal now twice in the last year. I also have a better idea to amend to the quad4x4 procedure on re-installing the hubs. If your interested let me know. Trying to align the 4 hub bolts, the spacer and the dust shield and then the splines on axle with the hubs was a real killer since all those parts will move on you and the hub keeps rotating while you support the 30 lb hub/rotor assembly. I replaced my diff fluid with Redline synthethic



Edit: The axle seals will sometimes stop leaking if the seals are disturbed because the old rubber seal will take awhile to reform... . or not. Also, be sure the diff fluid is 3/4 inch below the fill hole. Overfilling will cause the seals to leak. . I have many posts I have read on DTR (diesel truck resource) to backup that statement and the service manual does not mention this. A friend just had a shop replace his front rotors and his driver side seal leaked. I told him to wait awhile to see if it stopped and sure enough it did. The seal probably reformed around the axle. If it does leak some don't panic and give it some time.



Good luck,

Dave

 

[BK]

Dave,



My drivers side sealed just leaked out of the blue. . and stopped short time later. .





Yes, very interested in your re-installing procedure.....

plz let me know. The only info I have is from the FSM.



tnx

-Bob

 

[Dave M]

Dave,



My drivers side sealed just leaked out of the blue. . and stopped short time later. . b. Yes, very interested in your re-installing procedure..... plz let me know. The only info I have is from the FSM.



tnx

-Bob

I really fought getting the 4 hub bolts bolted to the hub. The procedure had me install all 4 bolts and then put the spacer and next brake shield (in that order) onto the front of knuckle and then try to slide the hubs onto the axle aligning the spines into the splines on the hub (very tricky) and the hub bolts also had blue locktite on them. After am hour of wrestling with it the blue locktite hardened on the bolts and twice I scraped the thread, wire brushed them and started over.



First only use one or 2 bolts (I preferred the top ones and don't use the locktite yet. I ended up starting with just one bolt to start and once I got it started I got the 2nd top one in and then locktited the other two since everything was now lined up. Then I removed one at a time the first 2 bolts that had no locktite and applied locktite. It prevented the locktite hardening.



I fought those hubs a long time and was worn out when finally got then lined up. Maybe there is a better trick to it but it was just plain hard for me.



I would suggest reading some posts on the procedure before you start on it or just buy the quad 4x4 one which is very good with color pics and step by step. I don't think the FSM (which I have also) is good enough for this job but it is a good reference to use.



Dave

 

[BK]

Tnx Dave.
I have the FSM on CD, printed out the procedure and read it.
On your advise, I bought the down load from quad.

The FSM says to put in the 2 most rear bolts, slide on the spacer, the backing plate, and get those two bolts going... ... ...

They never mention Loctite... as you and quad do.

I think I'll try and work on some way to get the new ones strapped to my floor jacks.
Getting the old ones strapped on for removal should provide me some insight for strapping in the new ones. If I had an old wheel, I could make an adapter for the floor jack..... but no old wheel hanging around.

 

[BK]

Did you guess press in, or beat in - then pull in the new wheel studs?

 

[Dave M]

Did you guess press in, or beat in - then pull in the new wheel studs?

Mine had a dually spacer mounted on top the hub/rotor assembly. The dually spacer mounts on the studs you are talking about but the procedure is the same. put them on garage floor on top of 2x4's and I loosened the nuts toward the top of studs and hit it with a 4 lb hammer and they popped out with one or two whacks. The nut was about even with the top of stud to prevent ruining the threads at top. When I re-installed the studs I just used my old rotors as a guide under the new ones (since I replaced my rotors) and pulled the studs in with the nuts... this could be done partially on the truck. I had no problems with that method. Just remove your wheel nuts with it on the truck.



Quad 4x4 had a neat trick to prevent the rotor turning when removing the nuts or when removing/installing the axle nut. Just put a punch into the top edge of the rotor and it will stop turning against the steering knuckle where the caliper mounts are. Worked real slick as a jam device to prevent axle/hub assembly from turning.



If you get drilled/slotted rotors they are directional so make sure the left/right are corrected. I learned this the hard way... . I had to remove both sides and re-install.



Dave

 

[BK]

New studs came with the bearings.
So just need to drive them in when I get the rotors.

Neat trick on the jamming of the rotor, thanks, will work for getting the nut on and off.
Since last night, I've been spraying things with PB rust blaster...
Seems rotors wont be in till next week.

Waiting on my quad4x4 order, axle nuts, knuckle to bearing bolts AND Axle Nut impact socket. I only have a crows foot that big.

That order is due into me Friday, so if we don't get a hurricane, and in the time it doesn't rain, I'll spend this weekend trying to get it apart.

Looking at the spacing in the axle ujoints, there's enough room to run a strap of a ratcheting tiedown strap through. So I can put two together if need be, and go around the axle and through both ujoints, and tighten things up so they don't pull out. And use the tywraps to support their weight when the bearing comes off.

 

[Dave M]

Sounds like you got it figured out. I had alot of trouble getting the axle nut loose. I tried repeated attempts with my 600 ft-lbs air impact wrench. I had 5+ feet of pipe on end 1/2 inch drive ratchet attached to axle nut (3/4 inch is really preferred here... I have since bought a cheap 3/4 inch set off ebay for $50 with about 12 sockets and 2 extensions).



I used pb blaster and broke my 3/4 to 1/2 adapter (used 3/4 in drive socket). Finally I heated (be carefull or you will cook the hub bearings) the nut with a MAPP gas torch and then hit it with impact wrench and it came off. The MAPP gas is not too hot for bearings but an oxy torch probably is too much.



To get the hub loose from knuckle I beat on my old rotors with sledge until they broke free. Since I'm not in the road salt states this worked for me maybe not for you. Try the power steering method if that don't work. I anti-seized the hub/knuckle on re-assembly and had no problem getting them off the second time. Your biggest headache will probably be seperating the hub/rotor from knuckle. Your could try (as Quad 4x4 suggested) backing out the 4 bolts an inch or so and hitting them in a criss cross pattern with BFH hammer. Note that a 12 pt 9/16 in or 14 mm (I believe) socket works best on the bolts but I have used a 6 point.



Dave

 

[BK]

I have only 1 14mm 12pt socket!
So it wont get used to beat the bolts.
I have plenty of 6pt sockets. And with new bolts coming, once they are loose, I don't care what happens to them.

I'm hoping with all the soaking, and the PS method , they come loose.

I have a mapp gas hand tourch for heating bolts. So at first if it doesn't go, I'll give heating a try.

Just as I was writing this, got an email from raceshopper.com, my rotors / pads shipped today.

I wont hesitate to slam the old rotors either.

With the threat of a hurricane coming this weekend, I didn't spend the time today strapping down the axles.
If I need to get the truck on the road to drag trees or what have you, I don't want to have to un-do all that stuff.

The only thing starting to get to me, if I have to take all this apart again, to re-do seals. And after spending all this money on rotors and bearings and such.
I'll be kicking myself for not doing a hub conversion, if I have to take this all apart again for seals!!!!!!

So far...
300 for bearings and studs.
319 for slotted performance rotors, Hawk pads , tax and shipping (nearly 55 for tax and shipping).
235 at quad for bolts and nuts and socket and download. (and shipping)
200 beer. . ok, would need that with the hub conversion anyway - so strike that.

~850 (w/o beer).
Would have needed the axle nut socket anyway, and I guess add the 155 for the seal tool from quad if I was doing the conversion.

Conversions are 2K or so?
I guess still a sizable savings staying stock...

 

[Dave M]

Don't worry about getting it apart the 2nd time... it will be real easy if you anti-seize stuff. Quad 4x4 recommened blue locktite on hub and caliper bolts. They said to put anti-seize on axle nut and washer and splines of axle to hub and hub splines and knuckle to hub surfaces.



The money you will spend is far less than what a shop would charge you and money well spent in my opinion.



I still love my truck. Next is Y to T or cross-over steering conversion.



Dave

 

[BK]

I'm considering rear disk brake conversion. The rear shoe braking is a weak link.

I talked to my local shop. They get all the things I don't have the time todo, and can afford to pay them for. Great guys, trust them completely. Fair prices, just not cheap, and not cheats.
So got an idea of the pricing. I got a better price (thanks to Chris) on my bearings then they pay for them. So now I have to drop off the contact info for them.

I wanted to see if they had a press and would press the studs in for me for $$.
They said no need to, they just beat them in as you mentioned too and finish pulling them thru with a lug nut and spacer and air gun.
They hadn't heard of the power steering trick, they'll try it next time.

They were almost glad I wasn't bring it down to them! LOL... ...

I love anti seize I have a big jar of it!
I got some blue locktite around too.
With all my brake jobs I've done, I've never used it on the caliper bolts.